LEGAL Endurance Aids - My Opinion

[yannick67]

I am looking for peoples opinions on these legal ways of increasing performance. I will try to include my personal experience with each.

B12 Inj. 1000-2000mcg/Week - Cheap, easy and very common. Helped a little bit with recovery in high volume. Small increase on RBC when above 1000.

Folic Acid Inj. 5-10mg/Week - Same as above

Telmisartan - 80-160mg/Day - I don't like PPAR drugs. Increased very sub maximal zones but took away the top end and capped my HR. Maybe good if you're relatively untrained or only work under threshold.

Tramadol 100-150mg per event - Extremely powerful and a huge gain. Very grey area and damaging to yourself. Usage has to be limited or a huge hole will be dug and it will be hugely detrimental.

Dynamogen - Not sure why this was popular. Did nothing for me.

 

[Millard]

telmisartan - 80-160mg/Day - I don't like PPAR drugs. Increased very sub maximal zones but took away the top end and capped my HR

Can you discuss this in further detail? How you measured? How dramatic? And why?

 

[kataking]

Yeah, im interested in hearing that as well. I have to take some sort of blood pressure meds. I choose telmisartan as the lesser of the evils.

 

[flenser]

Back when I was in to (obsessed with, actually) mountain biking I would use caffeine on long rides. Always had a water pack, so I kept coffee in a water bottle to sip from ever 15 minutes or so. I believed it kept me cool on long climbs and let me push a little harder, though it also made it more difficult to stay hydrated.

 

[Millard]

Back when I was in to (obsessed with, actually) mountain biking I would use caffeine on long rides. Always had a water pack, so I kept coffee in a water bottle to sip from ever 15 minutes or so. I believed it kept me cool on long climbs and let me push a little harder, though it also made it more difficult to stay hydrated.

I recall a big-name pro cyclist recommending something like 200mg caffeine per 25 miles. If I find a citation, I will name him.

 

[yannick67]

Can you discuss this in further detail? How you measured? How dramatic? And why?

Power and hr performance profiling. I would suggest it turns fast twitch fibres into slow twitch fatigue resistance fibres. I can see this would be useful for a pure endurance athlete who rarely uses anaerobic capacity. I can also see why BBers and untrained endurance athletes get huge gains from PPAR drugs, because the mitochondria density is not high and these drugs will improve this dramatically.

As an athlete at elite or pro level this system is already very trained, and the extra slow fibre activation and fat burning eats into the glycolytic/anaerobic system. Just my theory. These drugs may have uses in the base phase for sure to build the density. GW501516 is the main PPAR drug but is not used anymore due to rumours of a 1 year detection window. Would be interested to hear any input on this?

 

[yannick67]

I recall a big-name pro cyclist recommending something like 200mg caffeine per 25 miles. If I find a citation, I will name him.

Caffeine is a huge gain and very personal. In big races 500-1000mg is not uncommon over 6hrs. In my experience supplemental caffeine works well at around 2-4mg /KG. Often mixed with various painkillers and antidepressants to change the perception of the effort. Paracetamol can also lower core temperature in high heat situations.

 

[Reno]

B12 INJECTION once a week, vtamin c1000 along with iron everyday and magnesium before sleep. try to raise rbc the safe way. thats the protocol. also a plus is to use carnitine before training or so. if you are not a pro and make some serious money dont take the risk to go further.

 

[yannick67]

B12 INJECTION once a week, vtamin c1000 along with iron everyday and magnesium before sleep. try to raise rbc the safe way. thats the protocol. also a plus is to use carnitine before training or so. if you are not a pro and make some serious money dont take the risk to go further.

Spot on! And test test test your RBC levels! Take samples 4-6 weeks apart and note where they sit on your training cycle. Blood/nutrient values should be seen on the same level as performance tests. No point going into a huge block if your ferritin is below 80.

 

[yannick67]

L-Carnitine inj. - Ive seen this mentioned a few times, never tried it and it doesn't seem too readily available. @Reno @gotgrowth id be really interested to hear your opinion on this regarding dosage, frequency and timing in regards to pre training. Assuming training is an endurance workout of 2-6hrs.

 

[gotgrowth]

200mg per every 55kg of body weight

 

[cmK9s33]

Spot on! And test test test your RBC levels! Take samples 4-6 weeks apart and note where they sit on your training cycle. Blood/nutrient values should be seen on the same level as performance tests. No point going into a huge block if your ferritin is below 80.

I never knew a "good" value for many of the CBC markers. My ferritin was 47 on my last blood panel 2 months ago. I know alot of my CBC markers can be improved. Is there general guideline on what things like B12, Iron (ttl, sat %) RBC, hemoglobin, etc should be at in an attempt to improve/optimize endurance?

 

[Millard]

200mg per every 55kg of body weight

How do the l-carnitine injections compare to Salazar/Brown infusions (reportedly 10 grams of l-carnitine)?

 

[Reno]

Carnitine (β-hydroxy-γ-trimethylammonium butyrate) is a hydrophilic quaternary amine that plays an essential role in energy metabolism. The main function of carnitine is the transfer of long-chain fatty acids to mitochondria for subsequent β-oxidation

CARNITINE TRANSPORT AND FATTY ACID OXIDATION

from mine experience on field , i take carnitine 500mg 2-4 hours before training along with 40-60gr of carbs for best absorbtion. carnitine needs the carbs to show the way into muscle cells. on match days i take 1g of carnitine.

but hey brother if you want some serious endurance search about MILDRONATE. i took this shit for 2 weeks and made me an endurance machine(ofcourse the foundation and hard training is there), no kidding. search it and see. the one that tennis players used to use before wada ban them. you dont feel tired with this medicine

 

[yannick67]

Carnitine (β-hydroxy-γ-trimethylammonium butyrate) is a hydrophilic quaternary amine that plays an essential role in energy metabolism. The main function of carnitine is the transfer of long-chain fatty acids to mitochondria for subsequent β-oxidation

CARNITINE TRANSPORT AND FATTY ACID OXIDATION

from mine experience on field , i take carnitine 500mg 2-4 hours before training along with 40-60gr of carbs for best absorbtion. carnitine needs the carbs to show the way into muscle cells. on match days i take 1g of carnitine.

but hey brother if you want some serious endurance search about MILDRONATE. i took this shit for 2 weeks and made me an endurance machine(ofcourse the foundation and hard training is there), no kidding. search it and see. the one that tennis players used to use before wada ban them. you dont feel tired with this medicine

Great info, thanks! Looks like inj carnitine is something worth trying, its something i heard small bits of info about but never tried.

Mildronate was very popular before it was banned. There are several products that are similar and probably used extensively. The main problem with it now is the long detection window for anyone that might be tested. It could be months. Its the same with GW501516. I have heard rumours of it being over 1yr.

The legal stuff I am very much interested in.

Anyone heard of CoEnzyme Compositium inj.? This seems to ve very popular also.

 

[yannick67]

I never knew a "good" value for many of the CBC markers. My ferritin was 47 on my last blood panel 2 months ago. I know alot of my CBC markers can be improved. Is there general guideline on what things like B12, Iron (ttl, sat %) RBC, hemoglobin, etc should be at in an attempt to improve/optimize endurance?

Have a look on 53x12.com. The website and forum of Dr Ferrari. He knows blood like no one else, although not active anymore.

From what I have gathered from reading....

Ferritin - 80+ ideally around 100 (Supplement with Ferrograd of Ferrograd C)

Folic - High Normal

B12 - 1000+ (use 1000-2000mcg weekly to achieve)

I can't stress getting the bloods checked regularly enough. High iron levels can be toxic and be fatal. In-fact this is how most EPO deaths occurred. The EPO would bind the iron in the RBCs and when the athlete would come off, the extra RBCs would die, thus releasing toxic levels of iron into the body. Supplement with iron injection (very dangerous) was commonplace with EPO to get the desired effect.

EDIT:

HCT is personal, if you train in the heat it will drop, if you rest it will rise. Hydration can affect it. Naturally you should be in the normal range. Low HCT combined with endurance training might be 'athletes anaemia'

Haemoglobin is much the same. Very variable. Aim for high normal.

The size of your RBCs may be slightly larger than normal if you are an endurance athlete.

 

[Reno]

Low HCT combined with endurance training might be 'athletes anaemia'

on point bro! i have suffered in the past and you are right