13th....

[Dresden]

With the discussions on Race popping up...this is great watch for everyone

Combining archival footage with testimony from activists and scholars, director Ava DuVernay's examination of the U.S. prison system looks at how the country's history of racial inequality drives the high rate of incarceration in America.

 

[Silentlemon1011]

With the discussions on Race popping up...this is great watch for everyone

Combining archival footage with testimony from activists and scholars, director Ava DuVernay's examination of the U.S. prison system looks at how the country's history of racial inequality drives the high rate of incarceration in America.

I just touched base on a fee of my thoughts in racial inequality in another thread.

This is my thought process at least

(Copy from other thread)

That's such a loaded topic and statement.

Is the police brutality and incarceration of blacks as a result of Blacks being the group to commit the majority of crimes in the U.S?

Or is it the other way around?
Because they are so persecuted and marginalized, that they have no choice?

The chicken or the egg?

I would challenge you to grow up in a predominantly black ghetto.
You have ZERO hope of higher education.
Zero chance of a well paying job within the community.
So why the fuck should you bother?
Why not jack some shit and get at least 3 square in a 10x10 cell?

It goes both ways.

You CAN blame the blacks for crime, statistics quite simply state that black people are responsible for the majority of violent crimes.

You CAN also blame the education system.
Black schools and communities get zero funding.

I would ask you to look into a black community in Florida.
It has been "Sponsored" by a billionaire.
This "Ghetto" is now a positive, amazing and flourishing community.

The difference between thos former ghetto and others?

This man (Harry Rosen)
Has decided to fund post secondary education FOR FREE for any member of the community who wants it.

It was not outrageously expensive for him.

This community is very quickly turning into a paradise.
Regardless of race.

Crime has dropped massively, they are flourishing.

Education is the key factor towards success of ANYONE.

So, what came first?

The chicken or the egg?

Are blacks just inherently violent?
Or are they a product of a system that never actual cared about them?

You tell me

One Man’s Millions Turn a Community in Florida Around

An interesting article on it.

Education and educational funding IMHO I'd our key to the future.

Climate change?
Female education. (Once women are educated, they stop having as many children)
Those children become educated and start caring about the environment

Wars?
Education
Those with excellent careers and post secondary education have q higher aversion to war.

Dont get me wrong,
I'm not a bitch Liberal
I'm a conservative.

but the proof is in the pudding.

 

[Dresden]

this should be required viewing in every Middle and High School

 

[Millard]

I just touched base on a fee of my thoughts in racial inequality in another thread.

This is my thought process at least

Dont get me wrong,
I'm not a bitch Liberal
I'm a conservative.

but the proof is in the pudding.

There is room for social liberals and fiscal conservatives to find common ground.

The outcomes for mass incarceration for non-violent crime like drug use and possession have been terrible -- and insanely expensive.

As an alternative to criminalization, social programs like medicalization (drug abuse treatment, etc.) would have better outcomes for the individuals affected (which would make social liberals happy) and would save a fuckload of money (which would make fiscal conservatives happy).

 

[Millard]

this should be required viewing in every Middle and High School

Liberals and people of color protesting in mass on the streets. Law-and-order candidates promising to be tough-on-crime and to crack down on protesters.

Of course, the 13th documentary wasn't referring to current events yet it is an interesting parallel.

13th was referring to the late 1960s. And in the face of the social upheaval, Nixon, the law-and-order candidate won the Presidency.

And then came the war on drugs. Nixon found it was a great way to go after the campus liberals, to link hippies with marijuana and black with heroin and (permanently?) disenfranchise them all.

Few people are pointing out that the law-and-order candidate usually wins - which is why even most Democrats are strongly against the 'defund the police' movement.

Many people think things will be different this time. But if it's not, I expect the funding to the police for the war on drugs will escalate dramatically

 

[Eman]

which would make fiscal conservatives happy

Do fiscal conservatives actually exist anymore? It's like it's falling by the wayside, the social conservativism always seems to reign supreme. To me, the classic Republican party has been dead for years because of this.

 

[Millard]

Do fiscal conservatives actually exist anymore? It's like it's falling by the wayside, the social conservativism always seems to reign supreme. To me, the classic Republican party has been dead for years because of this.

You're probably right. The few remaining have probably been relegated to RINO status.

 

[Logan44551]

Do fiscal conservatives actually exist anymore? It's like it's falling by the wayside, the social conservativism always seems to reign supreme. To me, the classic Republican party has been dead for years because of this.

Rand Paul is the only one that come to mind and Justin Amash

 

[Silentlemon1011]

There is room for social liberals and fiscal conservatives to find common ground.

The outcomes for mass incarceration for non-violent crime like drug use and possession have been terrible -- and insanely expensive.

As an alternative to criminalization, social programs like medicalization (drug abuse treatment, etc.) would have better outcomes for the individuals affected (which would make social liberals happy) and would save a fuckload of money (which would make fiscal conservatives happy).

Couldnt agree more.
There have been plenty of cases where decriminalization has been VERY effective.

I mean common, let's send someone to prison for years for a little bit of weed?
That's pretty wild.

I dont condone "safe injection sites" I believe that's going too far.
But I'm a strong believer in education and social programs to combat these issues.

If there is one thing that has time and time again been proven, it's that locking up your problems in a cell wint make them better.

By providing educational programs etc, we can HOPEFULLY expect to save a lot of money AND potentially create productive members of society.

It's a theoretical Win/win situation.
No prison cost and an additional member our society creating tax revenue.

 

[4Figgy]

Do fiscal conservatives actually exist anymore? It's like it's falling by the wayside, the social conservativism always seems to reign supreme. To me, the classic Republican party has been dead for years because of this.

Only a couple. I have come to the conclusion that there is no fiscal responsibility left in American politics. We are currently not borrowing ANY money from anyone, instead printing and boring from the fed. A recipe for a horrible disaster. $30 trillion in debt by the end of the year the is projection. We are loosing a war from our own Cold War tactics. Absolutely nuts.

 

[Eman]

I dont condone "safe injection sites" I believe that's going too far.
But I'm a strong believer in education and social programs to combat these issues.

I get where you're coming from on this, I lean pretty socially liberal and this still gives me a little pause. However, the success with these injection sites can't really be overlooked. The education and social programs are a combo deal with the injection sites... You have the addicts downstairs and the rehabilitation unit upstairs... The injection site isn't really just for it's advertised use, it's the "bait". Once you walk in there, the addict is being advertised to almost immediately to promote a change to their lifestyle. I can't really think of a better way to do it personally, and it works... Looking at it this way changed my views.

 

[Eman]

Only a couple. I have come to the conclusion that there is no fiscal responsibility left in American politics. We are currently not borrowing ANY money from anyone, instead printing and boring from the fed. A recipe for a horrible disaster. $30 trillion in debt by the end of the year the is projection. We are loosing a war from our own Cold War tactics. Absolutely nuts.

I was being somewhat facetious when I said they don't exist, there are certainly a few... But, those few are the black sheep, they might as well not even exist. It's nice to see votes that don't matter one way or the other exist simply on principal though.

I just don't really see how social and fiscal conservativism can exist on the same plane these days, the right has become entirely too extreme... The left has too, I'm not sure if that's in response to the right or visa versa. The chicken and the egg of political tribalism.

 

[Silentlemon1011]

I get where you're coming from on this, I lean pretty socially liberal and this still gives me a little pause. However, the success with these injection sites can't really be overlooked. The education and social programs are a combo deal with the injection sites... You have the addicts downstairs and the rehabilitation unit upstairs... The injection site isn't really just for it's advertised use, it's the "bait". Once you walk in there, the addict is being advertised to almost immediately to promote a change to their lifestyle. I can't really think of a better way to do it personally, and it works... Looking at it this way changed my views.

That's a fair assessment.

Maybe I just need to be a bit more open minded and do some more research.

The whole idea of a place for junkies to shoot up, funded by taxpayer dollars makes my skin crawl.

 

[Uglyrichie]

To me it comes down to education, access to decent jobs. Both should be priorities for our nation but sadly their not.

 

[Eman]

That's a fair assessment.

Maybe I just need to be a bit more open minded and do some more research.

The whole idea of a place for junkies to shoot up, funded by taxpayer dollars makes my skin crawl.

It does come off as a little sketchy for sure... And that's where conservatives fail because appearances are important. The traditional family values bullshit that they peddle doesn't make room for helping addicts even if it is lighter on the wallet to put the family values fantasy to the side for a minute.

In other countries, addicts aren't viewed the same - the government treats them as they would someone who is sick and needs help. We don't even need to debate whether the "addiction is a disease" statement is true... Because we already know that when the issue is approached that way it leads to better outcomes.. so regardless of it being a disease or not, it makes no difference. Better outcomes for the addict, better outcomes for the taxpayers... But not so good for the profit margins at your nearest prison. Prison systems are a whole other issue that are better addressed in other countries.

 

[4Figgy]

It does come off as a little sketchy for sure... And that's where conservatives fail because appearances are important. The traditional family values bullshit that they peddle doesn't make room for helping addicts even if it is lighter on the wallet to put the family values fantasy to the side for a minute.

In other countries, addicts aren't viewed the same - the government treats them as they would someone who is sick and needs help. We don't even need to debate whether the "addiction is a disease" statement is true... Because we already know that when the issue is approached that way it leads to better outcomes.. so regardless of it being a disease or not, it makes no difference. Better outcomes for the addict, better outcomes for the taxpayers... But not so good for the profit margins at your nearest prison. Prison systems are a whole other issue that are better addressed in other countries.

I agree with most of what you say with exception to how important family values are. Every statistic of the importance of the benefit of a whole family is there, and clearly shows it’s the dominant factor (when compared to others) in futures of the kids and overall well-being. Not to deflect from bad parenting, abuse, and other bad things that do happen in families, but I would argue that your traditional family values sets the basis for children to see how to treat others, get along, work through tough times, help each other, and to care and love for one another. It’s something that is being lost in America, and the numbers point directly to the traditional family set up and values being lost and abandoned.

 

[Eman]

I agree with most of what you say with exception to how important family values are. Every statistic of the importance of the benefit of a whole family is there, and clearly shows it’s the dominant factor (when compared to others) in futures of the kids and overall well-being. Not to deflect from bad parenting, abuse, and other bad things that do happen in families, but I would argue that your traditional family values sets the basis for children to see how to treat others, get along, work through tough times, help each other, and to care and love for one another. It’s something that is being lost in America, and the numbers point directly to the traditional family set up and values being lost and abandoned.

I'm not saying family values aren't important but overall they're more of a myth than anything with regard to how conservatives advertise them... You don't have to be Christian parents with a white picket fence fucking only in the missionary position to raise a good, productive family. I'm not referring to broken families when I refer to non traditional family values, the evidence is relatively clear on that.

 

[Peltz]

I watched the 13th weeks ago, it was a good film although I already knew everything in it, the problem however has always been an "us(black) against white".

It's got nothing to do with race when it comes to the laws that stick millions in prison and fill a 1000 citizens with holes from psycho cops every year.

It all comes down to a police union, qualified immunity, a system that needs endless money to pay wages and pensions, a population that has been brought up on right wing tabloid news to love and worship LE.

Until the blacks join with us that have long been against the police and prison state they will get nowhere. We're fighting the same system, a usurping of our 4th amendment to travel without being bothered by LE. A supreme court that always provides a backdoor for LE to get around respecting any of our supposed rights.

As an anarchist it has always been my position that nothing is self justified. Anyone in authority must justify their right to rule in a clear and articulate manner. They can't just claim the people decided, because I never gave my tacit support to this madness and I never voted to have these people in charge.

Most of the data on police calls show that a person is often at more risk calling a cop than if they had just dealt with the matter themselves.
Blacks know this, many unsuspecting white middle class don't learn until it's too late.