Excess Protein

[Dr JIM]

As I mentioned earlier there is no way to quantify the genetic differences amongst individuals who are also using AAS, GH and or Slin alone or in combination.

That being said existing evidence suggests the anabolic rate of return declines after roughly 1gm of protein per pound of body weight.

Some may believe their gains are accelerated when higher quantities of protein are used AND I've every reason to believe that is indeed true providing they are also supplementing anabolic agents.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

As I mentioned earlier there is no way to quantify the genetic differences amongst individuals who are also using AAS, GH and or Slin alone or in combination.

That being said existing evidence suggests the anabolic rate of return declines after roughly 1gm of protein per pound of body weight.

Some may believe their gains are accelerated when higher quantities of protein are used AND I've every reason to believe that is indeed true providing they are also supplementing anabolic agents.

Thanks for the insight

 

[grey]

the anabolic rate of return declines after roughly 1gm of protein per pound of body weight.

And to paraphrase a different thread, competitive elite level folks may be ok with the diminishing returns curve since even diminished increases are still increases (tiny percentage differences being the difference between winning and placing at the Elite level of anything).

Likely though, it wouldn't take much progress down the curve for the effort to cease to be worthwhile for non-competitive folks.

 

[Dr JIM]

Likely though, it wouldn't take much progress down the curve for the effort to cease to be worthwhile for non-competitive folks.

On that point I wholeheartedly agree.

And which Meso members are almost always responsible for beginning threads of this nature, many having been discussed on several occasions previously, non-competitive noobs,
the same folk whom apparently believe "PCT" is an abbreviation for Post Coital Trauma

 

[jJjburton]

So the 1 g per pound of body weight would be for none anabolic users who do not lift weights. While anabolic users who lift weights would need more, do to an increased protein synthesis and muscle usage.

 

[Dr JIM]

So the 1 g per pound of body weight would be for none anabolic users who do not lift weights. While anabolic users who lift weights would need more, do to an increased protein synthesis and muscle usage.

Gosh I wish it was that simple!

You think there is a difference bt a competitive professional BB who uses AAS and other PEDs, and many (if not most) other Meso members who go to the gym on the weekends or perhaps three times a week, "when they have time" and dabble with AAS off and on?

Based on my experience there is absolutely NO COMPARISON bc while the latter considers BB a hobby, the former lives and breathes it EVERY HOUR OF THE DAY.

And for those SELECT FEW supplementing as much as 2gms of protein per pound of body weight MAY prove useful!

All that being said the majority on Meso will do just fine at one gram/lb
devoting the rest of their time to their overall diet, lifting techniques, injury prevention and a legitimate effort to make it to the gym three times a week.

To that end bc simply increasing dietary protein will NOT create an anabolic environment per say, only when all the above are achieved would enhancing ones protein intake above 1gm/lb/day seem justifiable.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

Gosh I wish it was that simple!

You think there is a difference bt a competitive professional BB who uses AAS and other PEDs, and many (if not most) other Meso members who go to the gym on the weekends or perhaps three times a week, "when they have time" and dabble with AAS off and on?

Based on my experience there is absolutely NO COMPARISON bc while the latter considers BB a hobby, the former lives and breathes it EVERY HOUR OF THE DAY.

And for those SELECT FEW supplementing as much as 2gms of protein per pound of body weight MAY prove useful!

All that being said the majority on Meso will do just fine at one gram/lb
devoting the rest of their time to their overall diet, lifting techniques, injury prevention and a legitimate effort to make it to the gym three times a week.

To that end bc simply increasing dietary protein will NOT create an anabolic environment per say, only when all the above are achieved would enhancing ones protein intake above 1gm/lb/day seem justifiable.

I don't know where to start here...I respect and like Jim but this is pretty fucked up.

When I entered this AAS lifestyle I didn't do it to ya know be the most impressive dip shit at work in a fucking Polo Shirt or become the least fat dad at the party. I did it because I have fucking goals in my small insignificant life. To suggest I should short myself nutritionally because I'm not allowed the luxury of a sweet supplement deal where I can "devote every minute" of the day to BB is pissing me the fuck off. And to assume my training is anything short of grueling would be selling my efforts short. I'm putting my time in every fucking workout every miserable meal I don't want to eat and every minute of my extremely short sleep schedule all while being a ridiculously passionate husband/father and a beyond reasonable loyal employee. Maybe I'm a little too serious. Maybe I live thru my gains cuz work has me by the balls and this is my release. But don't look down on me or make my sacrifices insignificant. I'm a legend in my own mind and I bring that intensity when the world would rather be asleep. So when you hand out statements like that know there is a serious ass blue collar mother fucker that'll don't need a crutch. I'll take my 1.7 g per lb/bw and my paltry drug regimen and blow shit heads out of the water with what I got. Ain't pinning to fuck around jim

 

[grey]

I'm a legend in my own mind and I bring that intensity when the world would rather be asleep.

I believe you, but I also believe that you and a few other folks on here who train like that outside of the competitive scene are very much the minority of users.

Could just be me projecting my own lesser habits of course but honestly the volume of posters seem to be in a fairly different camp of discipline (much less discipline namely) than you.


I would wager that numerically there are way more ZerotoHeros and SethAndersons using AAS than folks like you or Brutus for example.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

I believe you, but I also believe that you and a few other folks on here who train like that outside of the competitive scene are very much the minority of users.

Could just be me projecting my own lesser habits of course but honestly the volume of posters seem to be in a fairly different camp of discipline (much less discipline namely) than you.


I would wager that numerically there are way more ZerotoHeros and SethAndersons using AAS than folks like you or Brutus for example.

I don't understand. I MEAN I REALLY DON'T FUCKING UNDERSTAND. What is the point? To act bigger. To say they take steroids. To be some half ass version of a dream. This mentality irritates me down to the skin. These people need to pick a new hobby and move on. No room for dicks in the gym more interested in their play list than tearing shit up. I do well with people like minded. I'm not interested in excuses

 

[grey]

I MEAN I REALLY DON'T FUCKING UNDERSTAND.

I think it is harder to understand someone's perspective the farther you are away from it.

Your mindset differs so radically from theirs that they might as well be aliens.

They are real though

To be some half ass version of a dream.

Half a dream is generally going to be regarded as better than no part of a dream at all. Planet Fitness is based on and very financially successful due to this very thing.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

Eat your protein kids. Lots of it

 

[Docd187123]

I believe you, but I also believe that you and a few other folks on here who train like that outside of the competitive scene are very much the minority of users.

Could just be me projecting my own lesser habits of course but honestly the volume of posters seem to be in a fairly different camp of discipline (much less discipline namely) than you.


I would wager that numerically there are way more ZerotoHeros and SethAndersons using AAS than folks like you or Brutus for example.

No you're right for the most part. I've been to several gyms both in my local area and areas not local but in the same region of he country. Not including my coach's gym I can say I've met exactly 4 ppl who bring the necessary intensity to the gym to be a competitor. 4 out of TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PPL. my gym alone boasts some 6000+ members (their words, mine would be something incredibly demeaning lol).

 

[Dr JIM]

I've mentioned this before but my goodness look at the majority of NOOB PED related posts, bc the perception is AAS are something to try or experiment with much like recreational drugs.

You know my friends tried them so I decided to give them a go. What better reason is there bla, bla, bla!

These people are NOT interested in enhanced performance, reaching objectively defined goals, or the development of a muscular physique excepting for the here and now, or until some other facinoma catches their eye.

That's one explanation about why a considerable portion develop unmanageable and unexpected adverse effects
which brings them to Meso from the outset.

Ive come to realize, after some fours years on this forum, this mindset, like it or not, is entirely consistent with the Meso newcomer majority.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

Ya jim I think your right about a majority. I hope you didn't take exception to my rant. I think you got my gist tho. I think anyone with serious goals in mind have to consider taking in mass amounts of protein to be the cornerstone of their BB efforts. Without that, the foundation of recovery, they may as well be spinning their wheels

 

[jJjburton]

Alright so I am going to eat 280 g of protein. I tried 225 for 4 months and got results. I am going for 280 now for 4 months and will see what happens.

I don't see any other reason for using AAS, then for maximizing the bodies performance.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

Alright so I am going to eat 280 g of protein. I tried 225 for 4 months and got results. I am going for 280 now for 4 months and will see what happens.

I don't see any other reason for using AAS, then for maximizing the bodies performance.

Steroids and natural training aren't even close. Training naturally is much different. Also diet wise it's not even close.

 

[jJjburton]

Well what I am getting out of my research is that timing of protein intake(approx 20-80 g or more;in different studies) is more important than the amount of protein. Looking at my colleges library database. Also Leucine is important when figuring out these timed intakes of protein. Leucine I guess is an amino in protein helping with muscle healing(This is my own opinion/info). Leucine is more potent in certain foods. Eggs, chicken, yogurt and others. I think you want 3 g pre and post workout. There is a conversion online from what food has how many g on it. This is all common sense accept I didn't know the leucine part. Daym I am looking for this golden answer. I guess it's a combo of one's daily habits/nutritional intake. But I will keep looking it doesn't hurt. @Dr JIM and @Docd187123 Is this leucine part right? Do you know? Or anyone else?

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

Leucine is an amino acid no more important than the rest of the chain.

Protein timing doesn't matter either. You know serge Nubret used to eat his daily protein requirements once a day and in the morning right. Look him up tell me what you think

 

[jJjburton]

23 g of protein and 5 g of leucine was best. They tried other measurements. I can't copy and paste results here but only for individuals. It says it would be copyright infringement.

 

[jJjburton]

Leucine is an amino acid no more important than the rest of the chain.

Protein timing doesn't matter either. You know serge Nubret used to eat his daily protein requirements once a day and in the morning right. Look him up tell me what you think

Daym!!! ok I will. I mean it did say it did matter all over. Said insulin, protein synthesis and other body function were maximized. I will look him up though. Fuck it I am just going to eat food, all day before and after lifting. Moderate of all categories/macros. Maybe will try my own little study using other methods with Leucine or somethine, down the road. I mean I take BCAA's and Creatine now anyway.