Why the Steroid stigma in powerlifting?

[Mac11wildcat]

But are they really natural. I think beating the test is different from being natural. Some of these guys we may never know. It’s a shame too because the attitude of the public is basics “ If they aren’t natural, it doesn’t count” , “anybody could do that if they were on steroids”

sure a lot more COULD, but CAN they actually put in the effort and dedication to do it.

That logic is always flawed. Because even with drugs most people can’t come close to elite in either sport.

As far as dodging tests; morally, sure, argue it. If it’s your livelihood; If you ain’t cheatin you ain’t tryin...

 

[Btcowboy]

sure a lot more COULD, but CAN they actually put in the effort and dedication to do it.

BINGO

 

[NovaFlex]

Maybe it’s an ego thing too? IDK, honestly. I don’t know anyone else in real life that uses. Then again, I lift at the Y and am always the strongest person there, overall—which isn’t saying much. Speaking of which, saw a dude get out-lifted by his -presumably- GF today. It was miserable.

I don’t see the big deal with PEDS. I know Dave Tate has mentioned that he’d detail his cycles to anyone in person, but doesn’t want it recorded—not sure what that’s about...but he openly admits to having used when he competed.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

Maybe it’s an ego thing too? IDK, honestly. I don’t know anyone else in real life that uses. Then again, I lift at the Y and am always the strongest person there, overall—which isn’t saying much. Speaking of which, saw a dude get out-lifted by his -presumably- GF today. It was miserable.

I don’t see the big deal with PEDS. I know Dave Tate has mentioned that he’d detail his cycles to anyone in person, but doesn’t want it recorded—not sure what that’s about...but he openly admits to having used when he competed.

Because just anyone having access to that info can be dangerous.

While Rich Piana helped all this go mainstream, I can’t even imagine the damage done from guys not ready using his or something similar to his cycles and methods.

Knowledge/advancing in this game is earned. And maybe most importantly, Dave Tate’s cycles, just like his diet, shouldn’t mean anything to anyone else.

 

[NovaFlex]

Because just anyone having access to that info can be dangerous.

While Rich Piana helped all this go mainstream, I can’t even imagine the damage done from guys not ready using his or something similar to his cycles and methods.

Knowledge/advancing in this game is earned. And maybe most importantly, Dave Tate’s cycles, just like his diet, shouldn’t mean anything to anyone else.

That’s completely true. Never really thought about the damage, honestly... Someone seeing Rich’s cycle and thinking that’s gonna make them massive, without knowing anything about AAS. I can definitely see a liability issue there

 

[jaymaximus]

It's a lot of ego like Nova said. People think it takes away from their hard work. And it makes sense because people who don't do AAS think it's as simple as take it, get strongaf, repeat.

Remember Odie? He used to get pissed if people said he had great genetics because he thought they were saying he didn't work as hard as everyone else. Same thing, different reason.

Some sponsorship too (even if it's only IG). It's hard to sell supps when people know you're being helped by AAS.

 

[Silentlemon1011]

That logic is always flawed. Because even with drugs most people can’t come close to elite in either sport.

As far as dodging tests; morally, sure, argue it. If it’s your livelihood; If you ain’t cheatin you ain’t tryin...

Exactly that.

What I say to people is, you've obviously never wanted to WIN or beat your BEST enough to take the next step.

I was talking with my training partner yesterday, he just ran his first cycle. ( @Human_backhoe )

He said.

Man, I loved the cycle, but I CANT WAIT for the cycle to be done.
I'm absolutly destroying myself over everything,
If I'm an hour late at work and cant hit the gym as long, i beat myself up.
Eat a chocolate bar, fucking wasted gains and wasted room for protein.
Shitty workout?
Should have pushed harder, should have manned the fuck up, cant waste the gear.

Hes right,
This shit is hard work, it takes so much dedication thag the haters will never understand.
Cheating?
Is it cheating when literally everyone is doing it?

 

[Worf]

That’s completely true. Never really thought about the damage, honestly... Someone seeing Rich’s cycle and thinking that’s gonna make them massive, without knowing anything about AAS. I can definitely see a liability issue there

I think that’s the main reason these guys don’t talk doses.

It's a lot of ego like Nova said. People think it takes away from their hard work. And it makes sense because people who don't do AAS think it's as simple as take it, get strongaf, repeat.

Remember Odie? He used to get pissed if people said he had great genetics because he thought they were saying he didn't work as hard as everyone else. Same thing, different reason.

Some sponsorship too (even if it's only IG). It's hard to sell supps when people know you're being helped by AAS.

Well then maybe these garbage supp companies should put their fucking money where their mouth is. Try advertisements using people that actually take their stuff, instead of recruiting pro bodybuilding people. They’re just fooling high school and collage kids into buying their bcaas

 

[jaymaximus]

I think that’s the main reason these guys don’t talk doses.

Well then maybe these garbage supp companies should put their fucking money where their mouth is. Try advertisements using people that actually take their stuff, instead of recruiting pro bodybuilding people. They’re just fooling high school and collage kids into buying their bcaas

Yes, but do you know how much money is in the supplement industry. We are talking BILLIONS for stuff that doesn't work. That's not going away anytime soon, and people want in. I'll keep it 100, if someone contacted me to say I take creatine and that's my number one thing, I'd do it. Money talks and doing roids is bad for business. Unless your business is selling roids.

 

[Worf]

Yes, but do you know how much money is in the supplement industry. We are talking BILLIONS for stuff that doesn't work. That's not going away anytime soon, and people want in. I'll keep it 100, if someone contacted me to say I take creatine and that's my number one thing, I'd do it. Money talks and doing roids is bad for business. Unless your business is selling roids.

I agree but it’s still frustrating. I mean I grew up thinking that these guys just lifted hard and drank cell tech and that’s how it worked up until I was about 16 or 17 and realized there was a lot more going on. That’s how bad it is for most kids and even for some who are older.

 

[jJjburton]

I agree but it’s still frustrating. I mean I grew up thinking that these guys just lifted hard and drank cell tech and that’s how it worked up until I was about 16 or 17 and realized there was a lot more going on. That’s how bad it is for most kids and even for some who are older.

Yes it took me until running my first cycle to truly realize who was really running what. So 25 yrs old.

 

[Demondosage]

I don't think it's talked about as much because in powerlifting there is 1 main goal- bigger numbers!

It's not like bodybuilding where they're concerned about this compound putting on water or that compound not helping them get vascular enough. It's all about strength, and maybe on occasion someone doesn't want any gain due to being put out of a weight class they want to compete in.

It's just a lot simpler. I've spoken to a couple world record holders in powerlifting and their cycles were very basic. Although high dosages for sure, it wasn't this huge array of compounds like bodybuilders use. It was more like ,"That always worked very well for me, near meet time I would just take more of it!"

I think that has partially to do with not speaking about steroids, but also training and food intake is still deemed #1 in powerlifting. Where bodybuilders always want to look for some magic formula to transform, powerlifters know that the basic formula is a lot of calories and train heavy

 

[Ridethelightningbarefoot]

I think a lot of it centers around business. There is a lot of stigma around steroids from the general public. You can't sell shitty supplements when all testimonies are people running gear. A lot of feds and other strength organizations are constantly trying to make it on the world stage but can't if all the athletes are running gear because it's taboo to their audience. It's a lot about money when you boil down all the shitty opinions people have. PL I've heard they will nulify all your record info if they find out you are a user

 

[Worf]

I think a lot of it centers around business. There is a lot of stigma around steroids from the general public. You can't sell shitty supplements when all testimonies are people running gear. A lot of feds and other strength organizations are constantly trying to make it on the world stage but can't if all the athletes are running gear because it's taboo to their audience. It's a lot about money when you boil down all the shitty opinions people have. PL I've heard they will nulify all your record info if they find out you are a user

I think your right, I see and hear a push from the USAPL and IPF to make a powerlifting an Olympic sport. They run their organization in that light and there’s some appeal to it. However powerlifting is very splintered and there’s so many different disciplines and way too many feds. I believe there’s no chance in that ever happening and I think if powerlifting were to go main stream it would have to be more like strongman or CrossFit. In those sports the drug testing is minimal and the athletes know roughly when they will be tested.
I dont really know if 3 lifts is entertaining Enough to overlook to the obvious PED use to the masses like they do with football. I’m pretty sure the USAPL/ IPF is the only fed that does anything like that with nullification of records. Most feds have no drug testing and just pay it lip service or have tested/no tested meets.

 

[Millard]

It’s a shame too because the attitude of the public is basics “ If they aren’t natural, it doesn’t count” , “anybody could do that if they were on steroids”

People really do believe. I had a conversation with a guy who was convinced that he could play in the MLB if his high moral standards didn't stop him from using steroids. I was sure he was joking. But he was serious.

 

[Millard]

I think your right, I see and hear a push from the USAPL and IPF to make a powerlifting an Olympic sport.

I don't think there is any hope. Weightlifting might not even be an Olympic sport for much longer especially given the latest scandal:

McLaren Independent Weightlifting Investigation
Independent Investigator Report to The Oversight and Integrity Commission of International Weightlifting Federation
https://mclarenweightliftingenquiry...independent-investigator-report-iwf-final.pdf

Key Findings

1. Dr. Aján’s autocratic authoritarian leadership of the International Weightlifting Federation resulted in a dysfunctional, ineffective oversight of the organisation by the Executive Board, which had an ill-informed understanding of the organisation. This was achieved through various control mechanisms. As a consequence, Dr. Aján disabled anyone other than himself from understanding the overall affairs of the IWF.

2. The foundational control mechanism used by Dr. Aján was the tyranny of cash. Cash collected, cash withdrawn, and cash unaccounted for, which Dr. Aján was the sole collector. The primary sources of this cash were doping fines paid personally to the President and cash withdrawals of large amounts from the IWF’s accounts, usually withdrawn before major competitions or IWF congresses. It is absolutely impossible to determine how much of the cash collected or withdrawn was used for legitimate expenses. The McLaren Independent Investigation Team has determined that $10.4 million USD is unaccounted for.

3. Weightlifting has a history of use of performance enhancing drugs. Over 600 lifters in the past decade have tested positive. While Dr. Aján has impermissibly interfered with the IWF Anti-Doping Commission, the real problem is the culture of doping that exists in the sport. The investigation uncovered 40 positive Adverse Analytical Findings hidden in the IWF records. This includes gold and silver medalists who have not had their samples dealt with. This information has been passed on to WADA for further investigation.

4. HUNADO is not the cause of doping sample manipulation or hidden results. It has operated in compliance with WADA standards. The investigation found that the procedures followed by Doping Control Officer Barbara Kallo were correct and in accordance with the WADA Code. The source of antidoping issues that have plagued the IWF and sport of weightlifting lie elsewhere. HUNADO and its DCOs are not the cause of the positive testing results or the alleged influence on weightlifters to be tested.

5. The financial records are a jumble of incomplete and inaccurate figures distorted by a failure to accurately record cash expenditures and revenues and disclose hidden bank accounts by Dr. Aján.

6. The two most recent Electoral Congresses were rampant with vote buying for the President and senior level positions of the Executive Board, despite monitoring. Such actions are a fundamental violation of the sport’s By-Laws on Disciplinary and Ethics Procedures.

This Report will explain these key findings.

 

[Worf]

I don't think there is any hope. Weightlifting might not even be an Olympic sport for much longer especially given the latest scandal:

Ahh yes, I did hear about that on the Juggernaut podcast a while back.

I mean there’s PED use in everything from poker to cross country running and from the oil fields of Texas to the ice roads of Canada. Now maybe they aren’t running a g of tren for poker but amphetamines and stimulants. Even cyclists out there looking for an edge and there plenty of rough necks and marines on good ol Test c. It’s everywhere, in everything that requires humans push the limits. Especially sports , most exclusively where there’s money to be made. PEDS will never stop, they will only become more prevalent but secretive due to the paying fans being fat slobs and gap between gladiators and spectators grows wider with every IG post everyday.

Steroids peptides/hgh etc are more common place now than before. Some of it being written off as trt or life extension but we all know far more people using PEDS now than 15-20 years ago. It’s just crazy the media influenced popular opinions haven’t changed with the times