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What's The Line Between Ill Wishes And Threats? | Popehat
In English law, it was once high treason merely to "compass or imagine" the death of the king or his heir, even without a specific threat of regicide. Over the last century, American courts have held that the First Amendment requires us to distinguish between imagining a thing and threatening to do that thing. Figurative references to the deaths of our opponents may not be punishable "true threats." Hence when eighteen-year-old anti-draft protestor Robert Watts said back in August 1966 "I am not going. If they ever make me carry a rifle the first man I want to get in my sights is L. B. J," the Supreme Court held that his words could not be interpreted as a true threat against the President.
But where is the line between a rhetorical device and a threat? Can't people threaten indirectly, through images and figures of speech? When the local hood says to the grocer, "Nice store. Shame if something happened to it," is that not a threat?
That's the question the Second Circuit confronted in evaluating the conviction of white supremacist blogger and radio host Hal Turner. Last Friday a divided Second Circuit panel affirmed Turner's conviction for threatening federal judges who had issued a Second Amendment decision that make him angry. The case shows how difficult it can be to distinguish among political rhetoric, threats, and incitements.
Turner was upset with three Seventh Circuit judges who held that the Second Amendment's right to bear arms was not incorporated under the Fourteenth Amendment — that is, they held that the Second Amendment restricted only the federal government, not the states. The Supreme Court later disagreed, but not before Hal Turner called for the death of the Seventh Circuit judges who decided the case.
Though Turner did not threaten to kill Judges Frank Easterbrook, William Bauer, and Richard Posner himself, his call for their death was not at all coy:
All the years of peaceful legal challenges; all the years of peaceful appeals; all the years of peacefully and lawfully lobbying federal and state legislators, to achieve the penultimate goal of finally interpreting the meaning of the Second Amendment, only to have it all thrown in the trash by three Appellate Judges in a manner so sleazy and cunning as to deserve the ultimate response.
. . .
The government—and especially these three Judges—are cunning, ruthless, untrustworthy, disloyal, unpatriotic, deceitful scum. Their entire reason for existing is to accrue unto themselves, power over everything. The only thing that has ever stood in the way of their achieving ultimate power is the fact that We The People have guns. Now, that is very much in jeopardy. Government lies, cheats, manipulates, twists and outright disobeys the supreme law and founding documents of this land because they have not, in our lifetime, faced REAL free men willing to walk up to them and kill them for their defiance and disobedience.
Thomas Jefferson, one of our Founding Fathers, told us “The tree of liberty must be replenished from time to time with the blood of tyrants and patriots.” It is time to replenish the tree! Let me be the first to say this plainly: These Judges deserve to be killed. Their blood will replenish the tree of liberty. A small price to pay to assure freedom for millions.
Turner went beyond this rhetoric to invoke the murder of the family of federal judge Joan Lefko, which at one point was attributed (incorrectly) to supporters of white supremacist Matthew Hale, who were infuriated that she had ruled against Hale in a trademark dispute:
Shortly thereafter, a gunman entered the home of that lower court Judge and slaughtered the Judge’s mother and husband. Apparently, the 7th U.S. Circuit court didn’t get the hint after those killings. It appears another lesson is needed. These Judges are traitors to the United States of America. They have intentionally violated the Constitution. They have now also intentionally ignored a major ruling by the US Supreme Court. If they are allowed to get away with this by surviving, other Judges will act the same way. These Judges deserve to made such an example of as to send a message to the entire judiciary: Obey the Constitution or die.
Turner followed up with information about how to find, and kill, the judges:
The next day, Turner posted an “update” stating: “Judges official public work addresses and a map of the area are below. Their home addresses and maps will follow soon. Behold these devils . . . .” What followed were the names and photographs of United States Circuit Judges Frank Easterbrook, William Bauer, and Richard Posner; the room numbers for each of the judges’ chambers within the Everett McKinley Dirksen United States Courthouse; and a photograph and map of the courthouse’s location in Chicago. On the building’s photograph Turner drew red arrows and wrote, “Anti-truck bomb barriers,” to illustrate the location of these barriers around the building.
Turner was indicted for threatening to kill the judges with intent to intimidate them in the course of their duties in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 115. After two mistrials he was convicted. On appeal to the Second Circuit, Turner argued — among other things — that the evidence was insufficient to show that his statements were "true threats" rather than political rhetoric. Last Friday the court affirmed the conviction on a 2-1 vote.
In English law, it was once high treason merely to "compass or imagine" the death of the king or his heir, even without a specific threat of regicide. Over the last century, American courts have held that the First Amendment requires us to distinguish between imagining a thing and threatening to do that thing. Figurative references to the deaths of our opponents may not be punishable "true threats." Hence when eighteen-year-old anti-draft protestor Robert Watts said back in August 1966 "I am not going. If they ever make me carry a rifle the first man I want to get in my sights is L. B. J," the Supreme Court held that his words could not be interpreted as a true threat against the President.
But where is the line between a rhetorical device and a threat? Can't people threaten indirectly, through images and figures of speech? When the local hood says to the grocer, "Nice store. Shame if something happened to it," is that not a threat?
That's the question the Second Circuit confronted in evaluating the conviction of white supremacist blogger and radio host Hal Turner. Last Friday a divided Second Circuit panel affirmed Turner's conviction for threatening federal judges who had issued a Second Amendment decision that make him angry. The case shows how difficult it can be to distinguish among political rhetoric, threats, and incitements.
Turner was upset with three Seventh Circuit judges who held that the Second Amendment's right to bear arms was not incorporated under the Fourteenth Amendment — that is, they held that the Second Amendment restricted only the federal government, not the states. The Supreme Court later disagreed, but not before Hal Turner called for the death of the Seventh Circuit judges who decided the case.
Though Turner did not threaten to kill Judges Frank Easterbrook, William Bauer, and Richard Posner himself, his call for their death was not at all coy:
All the years of peaceful legal challenges; all the years of peaceful appeals; all the years of peacefully and lawfully lobbying federal and state legislators, to achieve the penultimate goal of finally interpreting the meaning of the Second Amendment, only to have it all thrown in the trash by three Appellate Judges in a manner so sleazy and cunning as to deserve the ultimate response.
. . .
The government—and especially these three Judges—are cunning, ruthless, untrustworthy, disloyal, unpatriotic, deceitful scum. Their entire reason for existing is to accrue unto themselves, power over everything. The only thing that has ever stood in the way of their achieving ultimate power is the fact that We The People have guns. Now, that is very much in jeopardy. Government lies, cheats, manipulates, twists and outright disobeys the supreme law and founding documents of this land because they have not, in our lifetime, faced REAL free men willing to walk up to them and kill them for their defiance and disobedience.
Thomas Jefferson, one of our Founding Fathers, told us “The tree of liberty must be replenished from time to time with the blood of tyrants and patriots.” It is time to replenish the tree! Let me be the first to say this plainly: These Judges deserve to be killed. Their blood will replenish the tree of liberty. A small price to pay to assure freedom for millions.
Turner went beyond this rhetoric to invoke the murder of the family of federal judge Joan Lefko, which at one point was attributed (incorrectly) to supporters of white supremacist Matthew Hale, who were infuriated that she had ruled against Hale in a trademark dispute:
Shortly thereafter, a gunman entered the home of that lower court Judge and slaughtered the Judge’s mother and husband. Apparently, the 7th U.S. Circuit court didn’t get the hint after those killings. It appears another lesson is needed. These Judges are traitors to the United States of America. They have intentionally violated the Constitution. They have now also intentionally ignored a major ruling by the US Supreme Court. If they are allowed to get away with this by surviving, other Judges will act the same way. These Judges deserve to made such an example of as to send a message to the entire judiciary: Obey the Constitution or die.
Turner followed up with information about how to find, and kill, the judges:
The next day, Turner posted an “update” stating: “Judges official public work addresses and a map of the area are below. Their home addresses and maps will follow soon. Behold these devils . . . .” What followed were the names and photographs of United States Circuit Judges Frank Easterbrook, William Bauer, and Richard Posner; the room numbers for each of the judges’ chambers within the Everett McKinley Dirksen United States Courthouse; and a photograph and map of the courthouse’s location in Chicago. On the building’s photograph Turner drew red arrows and wrote, “Anti-truck bomb barriers,” to illustrate the location of these barriers around the building.
Turner was indicted for threatening to kill the judges with intent to intimidate them in the course of their duties in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 115. After two mistrials he was convicted. On appeal to the Second Circuit, Turner argued — among other things — that the evidence was insufficient to show that his statements were "true threats" rather than political rhetoric. Last Friday the court affirmed the conviction on a 2-1 vote.
