TRT - Weekly IM CYP in Sjogren's/Celiac Disease. GoodResults but Disappear by Day 6.

[cnv2855]

TRT - IM CYP Autoimmune Hypogonadism. Great Results but Need Help!

Here's some brief history in quotes, you can skip it if you'd like.

Alright. I'm 25 years old and I've been suffering from Sjogren's and Celiac for years and I've been progressively getting worse. I tested extremely low for testosterone a few years ago, <200mg/dl for someone my age, and my endocrinologist gave me androgel. I had some adverse reactions to it and it just wasn't working, in fact making me feel worse! My T levels never went up but he wouldn't budge and kept trying to make me take more and more of the stuff. Finally I said fuck it and decided not to fix my testosterone levels and instead worry about my autoimmune disease.

Earlier this year, my health declined dramatically. I lost a lot of weight, my cognition was HORRIBLE, I couldn't think, and I felt like I was losing my memory and ability to think . I also had no sex drive, when I did ejaculate there is very little semen (hasn't been any for the last 5 years).

I began taking 150mg of cypionate weekly and literally within hours of my first injection, I felt great. Sex drive came back, the fatigue disappeared, when I ejculated there was actually semen (something I haven't experienced in forever), I started working out again, and literally felt incredible (compared to literally almost being bedridden). I began a workout regiment again and it wasn't long before I was getting a couple hours of cardio a day. I felt like a completely different person.

I took the first injection on a Friday and decided to do it every Friday. Well after 4-5 days the effects started to wear off and I felt more and more like I use to; the inflammation began returning, fatigue came back, felt less energetic, brain fog came back. I decided to do the next week's injection that Thursday.

Within a few hours of that week's injection, I felt great again. There have been studies of hypogonadal men actually obtaining remission of Sjogren's with testosterone, so there's no question that it's helping. Felt great, wanted to exercise, had energy, etc.

Within 4 days the effects started to slip and by day 5 they were completely gone. Just like the previous week.

The next week's injection, the same increase in energy and decrease in symptoms followed by the same drop at about the 4 day mark.

What is going on here? Is the spike in cypionate suppressing my immune system and that's why it's so effective? Is it converting to e2? Am I metabolizing the stuff incredibly fast?

I go from feeling like a normal person following my shots to feeling chronically ill again by day 6. I'm not too experienced in this area but I know you guys know your stuff, so if you have to ask any questions feel free. I really want to find out what's going on here and of course I'm going to get blood tests ordered, I just need to know where to start and what to look for.

I've also been suffering from chronic prostatitis as well and it goes away after I take the shots (weird huh) but returns at the end of the week with all the other symptoms. For instance this week, I'm on day 5 and it's returned. The difference in how I feel immediately after the shots, and for the first half of the week, compared to the last half can't be understated. It's like going from feeling well like I could run for miles (like I used to) and having my brain function return and feeling normal, and not sick at all, at the beginning of the week to being chronically ill at the end. Although even on the days at the end of the week, I still feel better than pre-TRT.

Best guesses are welcome. By the way, this Thursday will be my 4th injection so I've been on TRT for 3 weeks. Early in the week, when I take the injections is the first time I've felt normal in 7+ years. It's almost exact. Injection > 3 days feeling great > 1 day feeling so-so > 3 days feeling bad. So I want to find out what's going on.

 

[CubbieBlue]

Re: TRT - Weekly IM CYP in Sjogren's/Celiac Disease. GoodResults but Disappear by Day

What are the symptoms of your autoimmune diseases?

I'm sorry to tell you this, but I think the feelings you are getting from the testosterone is a transient effect from the huge rush in androgens going on in your body.

When I first started TRT that's how I felt too - like superman on cocaine on steroids banging 17 chicks at once. Then the second week it was a little bit less. The next week less. The next week even less. Then I felt pretty much the same after I injected.

I did the same thing you did - "well, maybe it's wearing off soon. I will inject a few days earlier."

Also like you, I don't do well with gels/creams/transdermals. They make me feel like crap for some reason ( I think DHT ).

I think eventually you will normalize to feel a decent amount better than you did before T, but not as great as you felt for those first few weeks. I don't think that is something you can get back, it's just your body adjusting. I am confident though that the T will be beneficial for your overall health and treatment of your autoimmune condition.

 

[cnv2855]

Re: TRT - Weekly IM CYP in Sjogren's/Celiac Disease. GoodResults but Disappear by Day

What are the symptoms of your autoimmune diseases?

I'm sorry to tell you this, but I think the feelings you are getting from the testosterone is a transient effect from the huge rush in androgens going on in your body.

When I first started TRT that's how I felt too - like superman on cocaine on steroids banging 17 chicks at once. Then the second week it was a little bit less. The next week less. The next week even less. Then I felt pretty much the same after I injected.

I did the same thing you did - "well, maybe it's wearing off soon. I will inject a few days earlier."

Also like you, I don't do well with gels/creams/transdermals. They make me feel like crap for some reason ( I think DHT ).

I think eventually you will normalize to feel a decent amount better than you did before T, but not as great as you felt for those first few weeks. I don't think that is something you can get back, it's just your body adjusting. I am confident though that the T will be beneficial for your overall health and treatment of your autoimmune condition.

The Sjogren's is dry mouth, dry eyes, dry skin, low blood volume, and organ involvement including tingling sensations and nerve damage. I suspect the prostatitis is from the Sjogren's as well.

Every symptom of my Sjogren's was reduced by about 50% at least. My dry mouth, the prostatitis, tingling sensations, fatigue, dry skin, dry eyes, all of them were reduced by a lot with some of them disappearing completely.

If that's what is happening then why am I noticing the same effect every week when I inject? Shouldn't it be wearing off now that my body is use to the exogenous testosterone?

It's not the energy necessarily but the reduction in symptoms. There's this study and a lot like it:

Influence of testosterone therapy on clinical and immunological features of autoimmune diseases associated with Klinefelter's syndrome.
Bizzarro A, Valentini G, Di Martino G, DaPonte A, De Bellis A, Iacono G.
Abstract

To examine the role of sex steroid hormones in the development of autoimmune diseases, we studied five patients with Klinefelter's syndrome associated with autoimmune disease, three of whom had Sjögren's syndrome (SS) and two of whom had systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE). Serum testosterone (T) and LH levels, antinuclear antibodies (ANA) and rheumatoid factor (RF) titers, erythrocyte sedimentation rate (ESR), hemolytic complement (CH50) levels, and peripheral T lymphocyte subsets (OKT3+, OKT4+, and OKT8+) were measured before treatment, after 60 days of placebo treatment, and after 60 days of oral T undecanoate (TU) treatment. Before treatment and after placebo, with respect to normal men, the patients had lower serum T and higher LH levels, lower percentages and absolute values of OKT3+ (total T lymphocytes) and OKT8+ (suppressor/cytotoxic T lymphocytes) cells, and, consequently, an increased OKT4/OKT8 ratio. Hemolytic complement (CH50) in serum was below normal in the two patients with SLE, while it was normal in the patients with SS. The ESR was above normal in all patients, and all had high titers of ANA and RF. After TU therapy, serum T levels increased and LH levels decreased, but not to normal. OKT3+ and OKT8+ cells and the OKT4/OKT8 ratio became normal, and RF and ANA titers decreased. The CH50 level did not change in the SS patients, while it increased to normal in the two patients with SLE. The ESR decreased in all patients during therapy. Furthermore, after TU therapy, both the SS and SLE patients had a clinical remission of their autoimmune disease. Our results indicate a therapeutic effect of T on autoimmune diseases in patients with hypogonadism and Klinefelter's syndrome.

All of the Sjogren's Syndrome and Lupus patients (hypogonadal men w/ Klinefelter's) all went into remission following testosterone therapy. Sjogren's is indicated 10x more often in women than in men, so much so that they're even trying to add testosterone to eye drops.

I'd be inclined to agree with you if my shots didn't coincide with a huge decrease in symptoms.

Also can you explain that for the last 5 years I haven't been able to ejaculate hardly anything, and that coincided with the prostatitis. That actually went away, and I was able to ejaculate (a good volume too) several times early in the week after these injections. Testosterone is supposed to aggravate prostatitis so I don't understand the mechanism for all of that, my urologist just wants to put me on antibiotics because there's really no cure for CPPS.

 

[cnv2855]

Re: TRT - Weekly IM CYP in Sjogren's/Celiac Disease. GoodResults but Disappear by Day

There are some other things. My hair use to be super thick, but has become brittle and thin. I noticed my hair actually became slightly oily, and it was awesome... I haven't had any natural oil in my hair for years... again, now it's back to being dry and brittle.

And please keep in mind, that my normal energy levels far lower than normal to the point where I should be on disability. It's literally impossible for me to keep a job as is, I'm not in too good of a shape.

So it's not that I felt like I was superman and had to bang 17 chicks at once, I just felt good enough to be able to do things... which is quite a large contrast. I have no idea why, but the fact that the improvement comes and goes so fast is suspect.

 

[CubbieBlue]

Re: TRT - Weekly IM CYP in Sjogren's/Celiac Disease. GoodResults but Disappear by Day

So it's not that I felt like I was superman and had to bang 17 chicks at once, I just felt good enough to be able to do things... which is quite a large contrast. I have no idea why, but the fact that the improvement comes and goes so fast is suspect.

Maybe I was exaggerating how I felt a tad bit.

Well, tell you what man, easy way to figure this out is to keep dosing at your normal level and then get some labs.

If I were you I would go ahead and split up my dosage to at least 2x per week. That will keep your levels a bit more steady and will hopefully prevent any peak/trough issues that may be contributing to the way you are feeling.

If you continue to feel good but not as great as you felt when you started, then my theory has some merit.

Like I said, I bet it's a little bit of that and a little bit of the T decreasing inflammation and doing it's thing.

How are you treating your Sjogrens?

How have you tried to treat the prostatitis? Stay away from quinolones, especially with pre-existing nerve damage.

 

[cnv2855]

Re: TRT - Weekly IM CYP in Sjogren's/Celiac Disease. GoodResults but Disappear by Day

Maybe I was exaggerating how I felt a tad bit.

Well, tell you what man, easy way to figure this out is to keep dosing at your normal level and then get some labs.

If I were you I would go ahead and split up my dosage to at least 2x per week. That will keep your levels a bit more steady and will hopefully prevent any peak/trough issues that may be contributing to the way you are feeling.

If you continue to feel good but not as great as you felt when you started, then my theory has some merit.

Like I said, I bet it's a little bit of that and a little bit of the T decreasing inflammation and doing it's thing.

How are you treating your Sjogrens?

How have you tried to treat the prostatitis? Stay away from quinolones, especially with pre-existing nerve damage.

Antibiotics greatly decreased the inflammation but it never totally went away, and would come back everytime I stopped them. Had tests done and not a sign of bacteria... so she said it was nonbacterial chronic prostatitis and oddly enough, antibiotics have an effect on it.

What's even more confounding is that I also have Celiac disease. Last week, I got glutened worse than I have in a long, long time... and that may be playing a role in the decrease of efficacy.

 

[Woolygimp]

Re: TRT - Weekly IM CYP in Sjogren's/Celiac Disease. GoodResults but Disappear by Day

The last few days have been hell. My face became swollen, I felt bloated, stomach pains, etc. I had gotten glutened the past week so I'm reacting to that... but also it was later in the week. I had taken the shot last Thursday. I felt great up until Monday, then Tuesday was iffy, and felt like I was flaring like crazy Wednesday/Thursday.

I just took 100mg of cypionate this morning (Thursday), about 50 minutes ago. I'll update how I feel later in the day...

 

[1lion]

Re: TRT - Weekly IM CYP in Sjogren's/Celiac Disease. GoodResults but Disappear by Day

I'm going to start another thread about autoimmune probs and T

I hope everybody's symptoms are getting better.

Anybody have dry eyes or thyroiditis or gastritis that got better with T?

 

[vantage108]

Re: TRT - Weekly IM CYP in Sjogren's/Celiac Disease. GoodResults but Disappear by Day

I also have autoimmune stuff -- celiac and Addison's. I had a similar experience when I started TRT -- a big quick rush within a couple of hours, and then it would fade out a couple days before the next injection. We (doc and I) dealt with it by injecting 100 mg every 5 days for a while before going back to weekly -- this allowed things to get to a steady (or at least steadier) state, and now several months later the early fadeouts don't happen (but I feel good, definitely better than before I started).

Shorter answer: 3 weeks is still early days, give it some time. But ask doc about maybe boosting your dose a bit until your body settles in.

 

[Khaled mustafa]

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