MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Steroid withdrawal help
- Thread starter galec1
- Start date
A very, very, very, good doctor. I hate to say this, but you will be hard pressed to find one that understands what your son needs.
I'm going to go ahead and simplify this for you as much as possible:
Your son has been taking testosterone, a hormone his body makes naturally. He has been taking it at about 6 times the amount it is naturally produced in his body. Because of this, his body his no longer naturally producing it. If you stop the testosterone, it will STILL not naturally produce it to the extent it had when he had never touched the stuff. It is a negative feedback loop that has long lasting consequences. It will probably produce a little bit, but not enough. You know those commercials for "low t" you see on TV? That's basically what he will have. Low testosterone.
Now, if he had low testosterone for a legitimate reason, he would essentially take testosterone (as you say, steroids) as prescribed by a doctor to replace what he is lacking. Since he PROBABLY does not have a legitimate medical reason, he probably has the ability to restart his natural production utilizing certain prescription medications. Doctors who know how to do this are few and far between. You can try a local endocrinologist. Many will tell you just to stop the testosterone cold turkey and natural function will resume. This is sometimes the case, but often times not...especially with large steroid doses used for a long amount of time.
If he does do the cold turkey method his levels will be low and he will probably deal with:
- aggression
- depression
- low sex drive
- fatigue
- weakness
Certainly nothing life threatening, but it has caused certain individuals to commit suicide...and it is not pleasant.
If you have any questions please us know.
Hope this helps.
You need to find an endocrinologist to get his hormones balanced.
He should be fine in 5-8 weeks if he is treated properly.
Sorry for you and your family and I hope a positive learning experience can come from his "legal troubles."
Good luck even if you might be LE. Lol...
Take care
He should be fine in 5-8 weeks if he is treated properly.
Sorry for you and your family and I hope a positive learning experience can come from his "legal troubles."
Good luck even if you might be LE. Lol...
Take care
Just stop using them. There is no psychological withdrawal associated really. Other than the fact that he may feel better. Thats just too long at that dose. His condition can only improve. Not to discount any of the preceding responses.
He may or may not require a 4-6 week run with a SERM to normalize his system at some point. After a run that long it is better to wait at least 2 month prior to starting the SERM if it is going to be a matter of long term succession away from using with any regularity. He is not going to freak out and grow titties from cold turkey. You need to read more and use the search engine. PCT is overhyped IMO.
It is REDICULOUS to think he cant discontinue. So if he is selling something like that, its just not true. His condition can only improve as he is probably on the verge of develping GYNO issues and does not know it yet. Not to mention the estrogen that is aromatizing from the excess T is probably creating more mental havok than anything else. In retrospect, and I did something similar when I started replacing hormones, he really has not learned the lesson the yet. It would take another year at the rate he is going prior to any real signs of physical illness/trouble. So he will not want to believe he can't just quit. But trust me he can. And he WILL feel better. He may deny it...
He may or may not require a 4-6 week run with a SERM to normalize his system at some point. After a run that long it is better to wait at least 2 month prior to starting the SERM if it is going to be a matter of long term succession away from using with any regularity. He is not going to freak out and grow titties from cold turkey. You need to read more and use the search engine. PCT is overhyped IMO.
It is REDICULOUS to think he cant discontinue. So if he is selling something like that, its just not true. His condition can only improve as he is probably on the verge of develping GYNO issues and does not know it yet. Not to mention the estrogen that is aromatizing from the excess T is probably creating more mental havok than anything else. In retrospect, and I did something similar when I started replacing hormones, he really has not learned the lesson the yet. It would take another year at the rate he is going prior to any real signs of physical illness/trouble. So he will not want to believe he can't just quit. But trust me he can. And he WILL feel better. He may deny it...
I wonder what prisons do with steroid users who get locked up, for years? They must put them on a cycle to keep t levels in the normal range and no more; I'd guess.
+1 on seeing an endocrinologist. He/she can help. He can certainly get a script for low dose testosterone and get tested every few months, to keep the police happy. Without testosterone, his levels will drop to a very, (mentally) uncomfortable level. I can tell you that numbers in the 100-or-less range are awful.
You aren't sad, so much as you simply have zero energy or drive to *do* anything, at all.
+1 on seeing an endocrinologist. He/she can help. He can certainly get a script for low dose testosterone and get tested every few months, to keep the police happy. Without testosterone, his levels will drop to a very, (mentally) uncomfortable level. I can tell you that numbers in the 100-or-less range are awful.
You aren't sad, so much as you simply have zero energy or drive to *do* anything, at all.
There is a great Endo in Connecticut by the name of ILJA Hulinsky. He is in West Haven and FAirfield County.
203-374-4490
He specializes in hormones, after 18 months on test you son needs more like 10 - 12 weeks of Clomid/Tamox and probably some HCG
So in one sentence you say he isn't going to get gyno and then you say he is ?????????
Well which is it ?
To let him sit there with T levels under 100 ng/dl "AND WAIT IT OUT" ma be the worst advice I EVER heard on this forum and I've read a lot.
He should be on Tamox right now to help with LH levels and prevent Gyno. I have never heard of anyone saying SERMS played a NEGATIVE role in restoring HPTA function
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Some relevant discussion: https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/134308327 / https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/134308375
haas480
New Member
please provide medical evidence/research of anything you say in regards to PCT being "overhyped" following AAS; aka you're say its not necessary.
there is plenty of medical research and data supporting the effects of what PCT drugs have the ability to do, and blood work can back that up.
you're pushing this whole "nature" boy thing, being one with your body, and it'll just restore itself in a fashion alone that can be compared to PCT (since you say its not necessary, thus has no significant effects between completing PCT and not).
if you have any medical evidence, research, case studies, etc; please use them to back up your claim/"opinion".
If you have an established relationship with a family physician, I would ask him/her to consult with an expert on anabolic steroid induced hypogonadism (ASIH) such as @Michael Scally MD regarding treatment protocols.
I am not pushing any nature boy thing at all. ALL I said is that EVERYONE RUNS AROUND LIKE A BUNCH OF IDIOTS TAKING GOD KNOWS WHAT AND REPEATING THE NOTION LIKE RETARDED PARROTS>....... It,,, IS,,,, OVERHYPED>...
HE DOES NOT NEED PCT AFTER THIS SHORT AN EXPERIENCE WITH TESTOSTERONE. HE WILL NOT DIE.
Consider the response is given to someone who's APPARENT ALTERNATIVE IS JAIL.....
So I have medical evidence. SURE, MY OWN BLOODWORK. The body will return to stasis. PERIOD.......
I will say that for a long period I was totally adverse to PCT except for professional level athletes who could afford no down time because in essence it is A CYCLE BRIDGE for them For the rest of us there is no need to expedite anything.
However, and Lou pointed out when he said "gonna get gyno". Long ago I would have said how can one GET GYNO if the hormones are removed. Lately I have been suspecting that the receptor profiles can change depending on ones own natural ro current composition, and a SERM may very well be required to reset this.
I stand firm there is no proof that SERMs are directly telling the brain to signal production.
REGARDING DOCUMENTATION. What can you document otherwise. In a bubble with a subject who already has a good hormone profile, the results of the SERM are going to diminish as fast as the drug is removed. IT SERVES NO PURPOSE TO "RESTART PRODUCTION", - IMO... IT is a temporary trick at best, BUT BY END RECEPTOR MODULATION ONLY. It may actually service those who poduce too many estrogens on cycle in the wrong areas. If you dont understand the save it for now and read more.
What I said is what I meant. HE DOES NOT REQUIRE PCT of ANY TYPE TO stop SynT use. GIVE ME A BREAK. And yes see the thread Doc referenced. I am tired of typing now.....
It,,, IS,,,, OVERHYPED>...HE DOES NOT NEED PCT AFTER THIS SHORT AN EXPERIENCE WITH TESTOSTERONE. HE WILL NOT DIE.
Consider the response is given to someone who's APPARENT ALTERNATIVE IS JAIL.....
So I have medical evidence. SURE, MY OWN BLOODWORK. The body will return to stasis. PERIOD.......
I will say that for a long period I was totally adverse to PCT except for professional level athletes who could afford no down time because in essence it is A CYCLE BRIDGE for them For the rest of us there is no need to expedite anything.
However, and Lou pointed out when he said "gonna get gyno". Long ago I would have said how can one GET GYNO if the hormones are removed. Lately I have been suspecting that the receptor profiles can change depending on ones own natural ro current composition, and a SERM may very well be required to reset this.
I stand firm there is no proof that SERMs are directly telling the brain to signal production.
REGARDING DOCUMENTATION. What can you document otherwise. In a bubble with a subject who already has a good hormone profile, the results of the SERM are going to diminish as fast as the drug is removed. IT SERVES NO PURPOSE TO "RESTART PRODUCTION", - IMO... IT is a temporary trick at best, BUT BY END RECEPTOR MODULATION ONLY. It may actually service those who poduce too many estrogens on cycle in the wrong areas. If you dont understand the save it for now and read more.
What I said is what I meant. HE DOES NOT REQUIRE PCT of ANY TYPE TO stop SynT use. GIVE ME A BREAK. And yes see the thread Doc referenced. I am tired of typing now.....
I am not pushing any nature boy thing at all. ALL I said is that EVERYONE RUNS AROUND LIKE A BUNCH OF IDIOTS TAKING GOD KNOWS WHAT AND REPEATING THE NOTION LIKE RETARDED PARROTS>.......
HE DOES NOT NEED PCT AFTER THIS SHORT AN EXPERIENCE WITH TESTOSTERONE. HE WILL NOT DIE.
You think 19 months on T is a short time?
Yes. Did anyone say he was having adverse physical effects? 19 Months on Tcyp 600/wk is short. You have to consider the actual EFFECT of a drug. No one has ever died from a Tcyp overdose.
But perhaps not for all. Everyone is different. I am only speaking from ......
FYI, There are guys out there cruzin on 600mgs in the off time for 20+ years....
But perhaps not for all. Everyone is different. I am only speaking from ......
FYI, There are guys out there cruzin on 600mgs in the off time for 20+ years....
You need to find an endocrinologist to get his hormones balanced.
He should be fine in 5-8 weeks if he is treated properly.
Sorry for you and your family and I hope a positive learning experience can come from his "legal troubles."
Good luck even if you might be LE. Lol...
Take care
yeah. something about this question isnt right.
stop for an arrest. conviction. probation. jail time. daddy says? how do you know these facts anyway. so far as i know there is no physical withdrawl from steroids. not like some drugs, tabacco or even alcohol. so dont try to make the parallel. sounds like fishing for an answer that really doesnt exist.
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guess again.
I noticed that too. But I was too rev'd up on the keyboard this AM to pull off.... LOL[
)]
)]
haas480
New Member
guess we should be back in the pct discussion thread, but o well.
in regards to:
what is the period for recovery to occur, and what is the period of use you are recovery from?
in regards to:
for you personally,
what is the period for recovery to occur, and what is the period of use you are recovery from?
All these answers and no response? Question sounded desperate...I'd love to hear from Detective Daddy again just to prove me wrong...
We of course only discuss AAS here so there's no worries, but I'm curious what's up here.
We of course only discuss AAS here so there's no worries, but I'm curious what's up here.
Keep in mind my views on SERUM COUNTS as I believe they are worthless indicators of what is going on, and at best a measure of active hormone reserve at the level of circulation, as one has no way of knowing how much actual hormone is being transferred/at what rate. So the bottom line is that statistical measures over the years have determined that most folks carry anywhere from 250 - 1100 ng/dl in their blood composition at a single moment. Serum counts can only be used to denote quick testing interval changes, historical changes as to what one normally carries, or to determine gross anomalies in some folks. The rest is A BIG LIGHT SHOW used at forums like this. As above, I am not discounting the value of a serum reading, only it can not be used as we do here. FUTHER, the value is further diminished in folks that dont establish baseline bloodwork prior to TRT or AAS use, which I did, but big whup.... So I am not saying Dr. Scally is incorrect in his focus on putting empasis on BLOOD WORK. Its an integral part of the diagnosis.
PROOF: Does anyone really think that a 6'6" guy VS. a 5'1" guys uses the same amount of hormone, or has the same amount of receptors? And given that they are similar in body composition and usage? For starters, the five foot tall guy's nuts are probably half the size of the six foot one. The big guy has that much more blood in his body, and that much more muscle to feed.
I will say it again. Without a BASELINE, there is little service in a serum count. Still, what does all of the above mean? It means, any guy of any size could have a TT serum count of 250 OR 1500ng/dl and be metabolizing 10mgs of TT per day, or 1mg per day. THERE IS NO WAY TO TELL. The only thing this number indicates for the purpose of TT measurements IS HOW MUCH TT YOUR BODY LIKES TO KEEP HANDY "ON DECK".
A 40 year old male could have a TT level of 250ng/dl and be turning over a full 10mgs of testosterone per day....! Consider the entire blood volume/TT content probably turns over in less than a second.
FOR ME I measured out at a whoping 302ngs/dl prior to any use. I got prescribed Cypionate 200mgs/week and of course ran higher. This was years back. I Closed out a 9 month run with 800 mgs/week about a month out from discontinuation. I did try some HCG at the end, WHICH I NOW CONSIDER WORTHLESS for restart in a healthy male. But my labs were back to normal 8-10 weeks post continuation with no SERM USE.
I recently had labs done again. This time it was after almost a one year dicontinuation of 2+years of TRT, sometimes 200/wk, sometimes more. We just really can't get it thru our tiny little heads that more is not always better, can we?? Long and short is after a year off with NO PCT what so ever, (it does seem like there was an HCG shot at some point post discontinuation but no time recent) and labs back to normal.
Am I normal? HELL NO!! There are issues I will not expound in here at this time. But I can say that my physical profile is almost the same as starting. So you may consider that a young male who packs on a shitpile of muscle on a cycle, may indeed test out low post cycle and extended. There could be many reasons for this. Primarily I suspect he was not intended to carry the mscule genetically, so there will always be a serum deficit while the body is feeding it. There is no way to qualify Clomid for a long term fix, WHEN THE TERMS HAVE CHANGED. Sure it may stimulate HTPA, but probably only till removed. Most guys are only bridging cycles anyway, so whatever deficits remain after removing the Clomid, are likely due to whatever changes remain (unnatural muscle retained).
1. The body will adjust QUICKLY in the short run. It WILL adjuster eventually in the long run. Balanve will be found.
2. I AM starting to think SERMS may provide value in RESETTING receptor profiles though. And this would be critical to EXPEDITING Statsis. But my hyposthesis is speculation, and if true, the necessity would vary from individual to .....
OTHERWISE, there are the sick, and there are the SICK. AND SnakeOil salesmen have been documented from the dawn of time. They are still alive and well. So I try to evoke positive change here. Meaning, creating some new points of view to ellicit real medical change for the better, whatever that may be.....
PROOF: Does anyone really think that a 6'6" guy VS. a 5'1" guys uses the same amount of hormone, or has the same amount of receptors? And given that they are similar in body composition and usage? For starters, the five foot tall guy's nuts are probably half the size of the six foot one. The big guy has that much more blood in his body, and that much more muscle to feed.
I will say it again. Without a BASELINE, there is little service in a serum count. Still, what does all of the above mean? It means, any guy of any size could have a TT serum count of 250 OR 1500ng/dl and be metabolizing 10mgs of TT per day, or 1mg per day. THERE IS NO WAY TO TELL. The only thing this number indicates for the purpose of TT measurements IS HOW MUCH TT YOUR BODY LIKES TO KEEP HANDY "ON DECK".
A 40 year old male could have a TT level of 250ng/dl and be turning over a full 10mgs of testosterone per day....! Consider the entire blood volume/TT content probably turns over in less than a second.
FOR ME I measured out at a whoping 302ngs/dl prior to any use. I got prescribed Cypionate 200mgs/week and of course ran higher. This was years back. I Closed out a 9 month run with 800 mgs/week about a month out from discontinuation. I did try some HCG at the end, WHICH I NOW CONSIDER WORTHLESS for restart in a healthy male. But my labs were back to normal 8-10 weeks post continuation with no SERM USE.
I recently had labs done again. This time it was after almost a one year dicontinuation of 2+years of TRT, sometimes 200/wk, sometimes more. We just really can't get it thru our tiny little heads that more is not always better, can we?? Long and short is after a year off with NO PCT what so ever, (it does seem like there was an HCG shot at some point post discontinuation but no time recent) and labs back to normal.
Am I normal? HELL NO!! There are issues I will not expound in here at this time. But I can say that my physical profile is almost the same as starting. So you may consider that a young male who packs on a shitpile of muscle on a cycle, may indeed test out low post cycle and extended. There could be many reasons for this. Primarily I suspect he was not intended to carry the mscule genetically, so there will always be a serum deficit while the body is feeding it. There is no way to qualify Clomid for a long term fix, WHEN THE TERMS HAVE CHANGED. Sure it may stimulate HTPA, but probably only till removed. Most guys are only bridging cycles anyway, so whatever deficits remain after removing the Clomid, are likely due to whatever changes remain (unnatural muscle retained).
1. The body will adjust QUICKLY in the short run. It WILL adjuster eventually in the long run. Balanve will be found.
2. I AM starting to think SERMS may provide value in RESETTING receptor profiles though. And this would be critical to EXPEDITING Statsis. But my hyposthesis is speculation, and if true, the necessity would vary from individual to .....
OTHERWISE, there are the sick, and there are the SICK. AND SnakeOil salesmen have been documented from the dawn of time. They are still alive and well. So I try to evoke positive change here. Meaning, creating some new points of view to ellicit real medical change for the better, whatever that may be.....
