Solid intermediate program / How to "adjust for PED"

[BalrogRebel]

These are going to be quite newbish questions. Bit of a long post too, please bear with me.

How would you recommend "adjusting for PED" when taking a preset program (for powerlifting, in my case) ? In other words, if you have a program that is, presumably, meant for the general population (i.e. not on PEDs), how do you change it to take into account that you'll likely be progressing much faster if you are taking PEDs?

I've always trained "by feelings", usually aiming for an RPE of 9-10 on each workout, and made decent progress for the effort I put into the lifts. Reading programs online they all seem so...easy, for the most part (likely RPE 5, even with shorter rests). I don't mind the idea of easy workouts, if the program works, but I don't want to waste time (and money) for less-than-optimal results. And yes, I do acknowledge the irony of saying so after training for years "by feelings".

And then I would like to ask if someone has a good intermediate (upper-end intermediate) program to recommend for powerlifting purposes. I care about the bench press more than any other lift, but I would mostly like to bring up my deadlift (and really should work on raising my squat too, but that probably won't happen). I also wanna point out that I'm not actually a powerlifter, I just like to train these exercises and have a bit of pride-ego tied to them, so I don't need to worry about "preparing for a meet" or "peaking" at any specific time. Rather, I need something to keep up the progression, because I think it's about damn time to stop training "by feelings".

As I said, I'm used to working out to near-failure almost every single workout, since I can (currently anyway) afford spending a lot of time in the gym to "fully" recover between exercises. So I can probably handle the more intense programs, provided it's worth the effort.

I've done some research here in the forums and online. Initially I wanted to try the 6-weeks Candito program, but after reading it, it seems so damn easy that I can't help but wonder if it would really make me progress, and I'm legitimately wondering if I might end up weaker in the end by lowering the RPE so much, thus "pussyfying" myself. Might use it for a cut though.

I briefly considered 5 3 1, but I heard it doesn't have the kind of intensity I'm looking for. Again, if the results come I'm more than glad to get more for less effort, but if I can get more-more for more effort then I'll take the latter.

I was also curious about the "Seiko" program mentioned in some other topic here, so I googled it, and I can shamefully say that it looks too complicated as well as too "time-consuming" for me, so that kinda put me off. Now, I know this is a long journey, but I would generally prefer something more self-contained (one-two months tops) than something that takes months before "giving feedback on the final result" (remember, I'm not training for a meet, I do it just to impress the ladies in the gym who likely don't even know I exist and can't tell if a four-plates squat is good or bad).

So...something relatively short (1-2 months), repeatable, and sufficiently intense to make the most of PEDs and my current availability of free time. Any advice?

 

[Btcowboy]

There are far more knowledgeable people in here than I. I can only speak to my experiences in the last year of powerlifting. Like you not to do meets more a pride ego thing. And fuck who doesnt want to be strong.

I have run 531, Beyond 531 and Sheiko. If you like Volume Sheiko is the one. Its not that complicated, download the template and fill in your maxes and run it.

After the Covid layoff I am back on Beyond 531 with the added Joker sets. Primary lift, on 3rd set hit rep PR, then if feeling good go for the jokers and hit weight or another rep PR. Secondary lift then accessories. Loving it right now.

I also just got Average to Savage and looks ok and completely modifiable to what ever you want, 5 bucks online.

You should not always be working in 90%+ ranges. Work in different intensities, volumes, frequencies.

Just my two cents.

 

[Worf]

Calgary Barbell 16 week sounds like it’s a good fit. Also don’t always go for an RPE 9-10. You’ll have better recovery on PEDS but being overly fatigued is going to counter act the progress. You don’t talk about rep schemes or sets so we have no idea what type of volume you’re doing currently. Try keeping a log, calculate tonnage (weight x Reps x sets =tonnage). This will give you a good idea of how much weight you’re lifting in total and helps with fatigue management and progress. Imo the best way to use PEDS if you’re not competing is probably for a volume block and at the end test maxes.

 

[Btcowboy]

Calgary Barbell 16 week sounds like it’s a good fit. Also don’t always go for an RPE 9-10. You’ll have better recovery on PEDS but being overly fatigued is going to counter act the progress. You don’t talk about rep schemes or sets so we have no idea what type of volume you’re doing currently. Try keeping a log, calculate tonnage (weight x Reps x sets =tonnage). This will give you a good idea of how much weight you’re lifting in total and helps with fatigue management and progress. Imo the best way to use PEDS if you’re not competing is probably for a volume block and at the end test maxes.

I downloaded Calgary Barbell 16 week and looked god but if it aint broke I aint fixing it. Maybe a good choice for OP

 

[Worf]

I downloaded Calgary Barbell 16 week and looked god but if it aint broke I aint fixing it. Maybe a good choice for OP

No sense in getting into some complicated fucking training program if progress can be made otherwise. KISS. I honestly think quite a bit of the training that I do is too complicated.

 

[Perrin Aybara]

Lots lower RPE work (like RPE 5ish) will get you way stronger than RPE 9-10 will. Working out to failure or near failure will really hold you back strength wise. I've been doing mostly low RPE stuff for years and haven't "pussyfied" myself yet with all time PRs at 550/440/700. It's my opinion pushing high RPEs constantly is what keeps many people stuck in the intermediate stage. Prevents getting adequate volume to progress and the near failure reps reinforce poor form.

Sheiko is good. Downloading a spreadsheet, plugging in numbers, and then following it is pretty easy really. Probably not what you're looking for if you want to demonstrate progress often though.

If you only care about Bench try Smolov Jr. It's a four week program you max at the end of. I recently ran it on cycle and my bench went from 407x1 to 440x1. It's not something you can do over and over though, maybe twice a year.

I'm doing Average to Savage right now. You can progress regular AMRAPs and singles at RPE 9 if you want, so you can test your progress regularly.

 

[BigBaldBeardGuy]

Look into 5th Set by Cory “Swede” Burns.

It’s kinda like a periodized version of 5x5 but you use additional volume with similar movements. It’s auto-regulated like RPE work but on the last set you do an AMRAP which is good to take advantage of “good” days but not going to bury you on the harder grindy days. You focus on only two of the three lifts at a time which I always prefer too cause something always seems to fall apart or is lagging. Or injured on my old ass body.

I think he’s up to 3 books now on it. All are available on the Internet. Guy is super cool too so buying a copy is helping to support him.

 

[amtont]

Look into 5th Set by Cory “Swede” Burns.

It’s kinda like a periodized version of 5x5 but you use additional volume with similar movements. It’s auto-regulated like RPE work but on the last set you do an AMRAP which is good to take advantage of “good” days but not going to bury you on the harder grindy days. You focus on only two of the three lifts at a time which I always prefer too cause something always seems to fall apart or is lagging. Or injured on my old ass body.

I think he’s up to 3 books now on it. All are available on the Internet. Guy is super cool too so buying a copy is helping to support him.

Thanks for posting! Just spent close to an hour reading his articles and watching Youtube vids. Ended up snagging a copy of his book. Think I will give it a go next training cycle. I tend to do better/like programs that are straightforward and focused, which this program appears to be. The 5th set concept definitely appeals to me in that it appears to be adjusted based on your results and progression, without much fluff or guesswork.

 

[Rival]

Thanks for posting! Just spent close to an hour reading his articles and watching Youtube vids. Ended up snagging a copy of his book

same here as of a few minutes ago. After watching the elitefts podcast and a few of his videos I’ve realized I’ve been running a modified version of this. Ended up buying the book and will give this a go. Feel like I could have made serious gains in powerlifting had I had this book earlier. That guy is a beast. Good looks @BigBaldBeardGuy

 

[amtont]

same here as of a few minutes ago. After watching the elitefts podcast and a few of his videos I’ve realized I’ve been running a modified version of this. Ended up buying the book and will give this a go. Feel like I could have made serious gains in powerlifting had I had this book earlier. That guy is a beast. Good looks @BigBaldBeardGuy

Yeah, need to start spending more time here in the powerlifting thread as there is a wealth of good information and none of the scamming pieces of shit and dudes who cant get their address right for an order from the underground LOL.

 

[Perrin Aybara]

Here's a good example of someone that does "easy workouts" with good results.

 

[Perrin Aybara]

Here's a good read on the subject:

https://myojournal.com/rethinking-proximity-to-failure-for-strength-gains/

 

[Millard]

How would you recommend "adjusting for PED" when taking a preset program (for powerlifting, in my case) ?

I find the careful integration of a training program (powerlifting or other sport) with PED cycles is often overlooked. Advancing this type of integration could have a lot of potential for improved performance. There is a recent thread that discusses this - How do YOU run your steroid cycles for Powerlifting? - but I would like to see a whole lot more discussion / research in this area.

 

[Worf]

Here's a good example of someone that does "easy workouts" with good results.

He’s a block periodization guy through and through. It obviously works and well. I think the most complicated stuff he does is pause squats and board press maybe some block pulls

 

[amtont]

I find the careful integration of a training program (powerlifting or other sport) with PED cycles is often overlooked. Advancing this type of integration could have a lot of potential for improved performance. There is a recent thread that discusses this - How do YOU run your steroid cycles for Powerlifting? - but I would like to see a whole lot more discussion / research in this area.

x2 I would be extremely interested in a thread of this nature. I will admit I am no expert but if those who are had thoughts I would definitely be curious to hear their opinions as well as if they knew of what some pro/top level powerlifters were doing in this regard. I have seen a few threads on other boards of this nature which I could post if anyone would be interested, but I have more trust in the experts here and their knowledge that its not just somebody talking out of their ass.

 

[Worf]

x2 I would be extremely interested in a thread of this nature. I will admit I am no expert but if those who are had thoughts I would definitely be curious to hear their opinions as well as if they knew of what some pro/top level powerlifters were doing in this regard. I have seen a few threads on other boards of this nature which I could post if anyone would be interested, but I have more trust in the experts here and their knowledge that its not just somebody talking out of their ass.

Click the link. While the thread isn’t really long there’s definitely good information there

 

[amtont]

Click the link. While the thread isn’t really long there’s definitely good information there

No I have read the thread and there is definitely good info. I just meant if it was a topic people were going to discuss further I would be interested. I have learned a lot from you @Perrin Aybara @BigBaldBeardGuy etc.

 

[Perrin Aybara]

I find the careful integration of a training program (powerlifting or other sport) with PED cycles is often overlooked. Advancing this type of integration could have a lot of potential for improved performance. There is a recent thread that discusses this - How do YOU run your steroid cycles for Powerlifting? - but I would like to see a whole lot more discussion / research in this area.

Have you seen this discussed much anywhere?

For me it seems just test with an oral(s) at the end blows everything else away. Deload before starting and hit it hard for about eight weeks, max at the end.

In some ways being on cycle is kind of like temporarily going back to an earlier stage in your lifting career progress wise. Like when you're a novice you can progress workout to workout, intermediate progress weekly, advanced progress over weeks or months, etc. Where normally I'm looking at 3-4 week training cycles to progress I can maybe start making weekly progress again on cycle.

If that makes sense. But on the other hand I've noticed as I've gotten more advanced (and possibly just getting older too) that even on cycle I can absolutely run myself into the ground pushing too hard for very long. No amount of gear and HGH that I've tried overcomes it. I guess that's mostly on me not having fully figured out more advanced programming for myself yet.

This last blast I did, although it ended up being bench only due to an existing hip injury, went pretty flawlessly training and cycle timing wise.

Not sure where I'm going with all this, but would like to see more info on it too.

 

[Worf]

Have you seen this discussed much anywhere?

For me it seems just test with an oral(s) at the end blows everything else away. Deload before starting and hit it hard for about eight weeks, max at the end.

In some ways being on cycle is kind of like temporarily going back to an earlier stage in your lifting career progress wise. Like when you're a novice you can progress workout to workout, intermediate progress weekly, advanced progress over weeks or months, etc. Where normally I'm looking at 3-4 week training cycles to progress I can maybe start making weekly progress again on cycle.

If that makes sense. But on the other hand I've noticed as I've gotten more advanced (and possibly just getting older too) that even on cycle I can absolutely run myself into the ground pushing too hard for very long. No amount of gear and HGH that I've tried overcomes it. I guess that's mostly on me not having fully figured out more advanced programming for myself yet.

This last blast I did, although it ended up being bench only due to an existing hip injury, went pretty flawlessly training and cycle timing wise.

Not sure where I'm going with all this, but would like to see more info on it too.

There’s definitely a lot of the type of info for the bodybuilding side. X drugs + y training = bulk, recomp, contest prep etc. For powerlifting it seems so individual. Some guys are running 3 g of test and others are doing 500 test and abombs. Others it’s tren and EQ. Powerlifters by and large seem to really shy away from the actual drugs they’re on when asked. They’ll admit to use but compounds and amounts are another thing

 

[BalrogRebel]

Thanks everyone for the information provided. Looks like it's back to school for a while, before going back to the gym