HCG and TRT

[kmh]

OK, how often and how much?

When on Test replacement, how often should HCG be used?
What kind of doesage?

Can anybody give any recomendations or guidlines?

thank you,
kmh

 

[buck]

I believe that you will find that 250iu 2x per week is recomended around here. But I have seen hrt Dr's suggest as much as 500iu up to 3x per week. Currently I use the first protocol.

 

[kmh]

Wow, that is a whole lot less than what I have heard?
Where can I find more information on this, thanks.
kmh

 

[SWALE]

500IU three times per week is just fine, too. It depends upon the patient. The 250IU twice per week is a starting point for my gentlemen who are also taking Upjohn test cyp or Androgel. But if someone is taking ONLY HCG, then thye would probably need more. BTW, in my experience, you just do not get the benefits of TRT from just taking HCG. The best TRT is some form of combionation of testosterone and HCG.

 

[kmh]

Swale, thank you for your help
When you say "500IU three times per week is just fine" do you mean ongoing?
For those on TRT, I thought that you would use HCG every couple months. I am confused now. Is it suggested to use it weekly as part of the TRT therapy? If so I can see why a minimal amount would be nice. Also, I have not used HCG, is it injected like HGH with a 29 guage pin sub skin in the upper leg or stomach?
kmh

 

[SWALE]

Yes, I mean on an ongoing basis. That would be for gentlemen who are using HCG as their sole TRT.

But what you are suggetsing with intermittent HCG use is the notion of "cycling" TRT. This is posed by those who do not have an understanding of how the body functions. I have even seen such ridiculous justification for cycling TRT as otherwise inducing pituitary calcification. In the first place, it has never been shown to be a risk of TRT. And second, even if it were, cycling the TRT would in no way prevent it from happening anyway.

I have my guys inject it subQ into the abdomen with an insulin pin.

 

[kmh]

Swale, OK for those that are using Test for TRT-how often is HCG used?
In what amount? thanks, kmh

 

[SWALE]

The answer is already in this thread.

 

[kmh]

OK, if I read this properly it seems that when on trt or when supplementing with Test on an ongoing basis. It would be suggested to use at least 250iu of HCG twice a week on an ongoing basis.
Swale is this correct?
thank you for your time, kmh

 

[SWALE]

There are other ways which work well too--you have to tailor the treatment to the individual patient--but yes, that is a good strating point.

 

[kmh]

Thanks Swale!
kmh

 

[SWALE]

Glad to help, KMH. How's the family doing?

 

[kmh]

They are fine SWALE, thanks for asking.
Was not sure if ya remembered me, but a Doctor never forgets
Thanks again, kmh

 

[3xKrazy]

is the sole purpose of using hcg during TRT to maintain testicular size? and wouldnt that only provide us with a "cosmetic" benefit? i know you use hcg with your steroid athletes in order to quicken recovery post-cycle....but if "recovery" is never a goal (assuming TRT is a lifelong treatment), then whats the point of using the hcg?

 

[SWALE]

It just seems like more and more stuff keeps coming in, and all of it points to regular HCG supplementation as being VERY beneficial with TRT.

First, the notion of "cycling" TRT is for those who have no understanding of how the body works. No one who really knows what they are doing "cycles" TRT anymore.

Your own humble SWALE was the very first to recognize that HCG stimulates the production of all three hormonal pathways which use CHOL as starting point (mineralcorticoids, glucocorticoids and sex hormones) in ways beneficial to HPTA suppressed males. That is because its analog, LH, stimulates the P450SCC enzyme, which converts CHOL to pregnenolone, then onto the others. In HPTA suppressed males--and ALL who supplement testosterone are suppressed to some extent--this tends to restore a more healthful balance within, and across, these pathways.

Nearly everyone who adds my HCG protocol to their TRT reports back they feel MUCH better on it. That is, in and of itself, a good thing. The only complaint so far? they aren't able to get as much work done because they are then spending so much time exercising their libido.

We are finding more and more tissues where LH is active. I just do not like the idea of living long term with reduced LH, and HCG helps this.

There just seems to be something very, very special about enhancing endogenous T production in HPTA-suppressed males, on a regular basis.

 

[3xKrazy]

I just do not like the idea of living long term with reduced LH, and HCG helps this

are there any specific drawbacks that you can think of when talking about living long term with reduced LH....or is this one of those areas where we dont necessarily know its bad, but speculate that it could be?

There just seems to be something very, very special about enhancing endogenous T production in HPTA-suppressed males, on a regular basis.

so with the hcg we're stimulating endogenous production?

thanks for your time.

 

[SWALE]

None that we know of. My instinct is that it is not healthy. There must be reasons why LH is active at other places in the body.

I have seen pregnenolone drop once men become HPTA-suppressed. And I believe the changes that thusly cascade through three different hormonal pathways is one reason men who are on AAS cycles, or even TRT which is dosed too high develop an edgy, burned-out feeling. That usually makes them want to take MORE testosterone, which is the wrong direction to go in.

The AAS users I have talked into using small, regular doses of HCG tell me they feel much better while on. I believe part of that is the HCG-induced stimulation of the P450SCC enzyme, which converts CHOL into pregnenolone. They also tell me they recover much faster.

Yes, HCG stimulates endogenous production. However, it works directly at the testes. The HP still remains suppressed by the testosterone that is produced.