Evidence That TRT Disrupts Other Hormones in the Body?

[aqualung]

I'm just getting started on seriously researching the effects of replacing testosterone using testosterone itself with HCG and possibly an aromatase inhibitor, and I want to understand the effects of such a protocol on the body. (Duh!:droolingI have read postings on this site and others where it is alleged that TRT may be responsible for disruptions in other hormones in the body, particularly thyroid hormone(s), cortisol, progesterone and pregnenolone.

I know little about these hormones, and, although I know how to use the search function, I'm coming up with bits and pieces and having difficulty getting a full (enough) picture...

E.g., it's my understanding that the lack of sufficient LH stimulation to the testicles for someone only on testosterone could (or almost certainly would?) cause a fall in progesterone. However, it was also my understanding that HCG should prevent this issue. Pregnenolone, from which the body makes progesterone in my understanding, is even fuzzier for me and Wikipedia is worthless on that topic, but I assume that if it was made in the testicles, HCG would prevent a problem there.

Yet, another post I read today had someone who could "swear that Dr. John has all his patients on [pregnenolone]". Why would that be the case when he also uses HCG?!?

I want to fully understand what the effects of hormone replacement are before I start. (Or, I should say, much more fully understand, since no one truly understands the body.)

The things I've read have made me fear that getting a healthy testosterone level back and maintaining testicular function with HCG and test in many cases throws the body more out of whack, rather than bringing it into balance, which is what one would hope and expect...

Any thoughts or references, including books at a "soft science" college grad's level, that could help me begin to understand the likely repercussions of starting TRT would be appreciated.

 

[zkt]

What do you want? Someone to do all your reseach, thinking and work for you?
Try conceptualizing key words and typing them into Google.
When you get handle on that then graduate to medline.
Then we talk.

 

[HeadDoc]

I'm just getting started.....

Any thoughts or references, including books at a "soft science" college grad's level, that could help me begin to understand the likely repercussions of starting TRT would be appreciated.

You could start with a good general reference, like the following. The book is not yesterday's publication and yet it is fairly broad in scope to get started. Sounds like you are at a point that I was in 2003 and being offered a script for TRT. BTW, I turned it down and gave myself a year of study and consult with someone who published on the topic .

anti-aging medicine: Los Gatos Longevity Institute

 

[BBC3]

No one is really being an ass here. The truth is that most is unknown as there are way too many casual inherent relations. Obviously there is no doubt that SynT will disrupt what ever is produced from the testicles, but the rest is only a guess from anyone. I can tell you that years of TRT and high SynT dosing elevated my TSH from what used to be an unmovable 1.2 up to 3.5. This took about 4 years to happen. No other real reason....

Read my thoughts on Serum Counts vs, metabolim and you will see what I think this is worth, at least as a temporary with exogenous stimulus. If continued without exogenous I will be concerned.

I'm just getting started on seriously researching the effects of replacing testosterone using testosterone itself with HCG and possibly an aromatase inhibitor, and I want to understand the effects of such a protocol on the body. (Duh!:droolingI have read postings on this site and others where it is alleged that TRT may be responsible for disruptions in other hormones in the body, particularly thyroid hormone(s), cortisol, progesterone and pregnenolone.

I know little about these hormones, and, although I know how to use the search function, I'm coming up with bits and pieces and having difficulty getting a full (enough) picture...

E.g., it's my understanding that the lack of sufficient LH stimulation to the testicles for someone only on testosterone could (or almost certainly would?) cause a fall in progesterone. However, it was also my understanding that HCG should prevent this issue. Pregnenolone, from which the body makes progesterone in my understanding, is even fuzzier for me and Wikipedia is worthless on that topic, but I assume that if it was made in the testicles, HCG would prevent a problem there.

Yet, another post I read today had someone who could "swear that Dr. John has all his patients on [pregnenolone]". Why would that be the case when he also uses HCG?!?

I want to fully understand what the effects of hormone replacement are before I start. (Or, I should say, much more fully understand, since no one truly understands the body.)

The things I've read have made me fear that getting a healthy testosterone level back and maintaining testicular function with HCG and test in many cases throws the body more out of whack, rather than bringing it into balance, which is what one would hope and expect...

Any thoughts or references, including books at a "soft science" college grad's level, that could help me begin to understand the likely repercussions of starting TRT would be appreciated.

 

[DragonRider]

Yet, another post I read today had someone who could "swear that Dr. John has all his patients on [pregnenolone]". Why would that be the case when he also uses HCG?!?

I want to fully understand what the effects of hormone replacement are before I start. (Or, I should say, much more fully understand, since no one truly understands the body.)

I don't know where you are reading this stuff. Testosterone in supraphysiological doses (such as what bodybuilders use) may cause those problems, but testoserone in normal replacement doses will help to normalize a great many other hormones.
Dr. John suggests SOME of his patients use preg to backfill other hormones which may be low now that test has been optimized, but it definately is not a standard for everyone.

The things I've read have made me fear that getting a healthy testosterone level back and maintaining testicular function with HCG and test in many cases throws the body more out of whack, rather than bringing it into balance, which is what one would hope and expect....

If that were true, HRT for males would be discontinued permanently. The medical community as a whole has fought violantly against giving men testosterone replacement. For years they denied that it had any positive impact on men's health.
It is only through seeing the footprints in the snow that thety reluctantly admitted its merits and finally started putting men back on the track to health.
If anyone in the medical community could even cast a slight doubt that raising test throws other hormones out of whack, We would never benefit from HRTherapy again.

 

[BBC3]

You have real legitimate concerns. Are you sure you even need TRT. A serum count WILL NOT be sure of this. You will most likely wind up more fucked up if you have no injury and you are just biting on the "LowT" male hook. Your problem is probably arleady hormones out of whack and not supply levels. The issue is probably muscle/fat content, etc. And you are making too much estrogen and not enough Androgens. You are on the right track with your concern. It may or may not be correct. Read,...

I'm just getting started on seriously researching the effects of replacing testosterone using testosterone itself with HCG and possibly an aromatase inhibitor, and I want to understand the effects of such a protocol on the body. (Duh!:droolingI have read postings on this site and others where it is alleged that TRT may be responsible for disruptions in other hormones in the body, particularly thyroid hormone(s), cortisol, progesterone and pregnenolone.

I know little about these hormones, and, although I know how to use the search function, I'm coming up with bits and pieces and having difficulty getting a full (enough) picture...

E.g., it's my understanding that the lack of sufficient LH stimulation to the testicles for someone only on testosterone could (or almost certainly would?) cause a fall in progesterone. However, it was also my understanding that HCG should prevent this issue. Pregnenolone, from which the body makes progesterone in my understanding, is even fuzzier for me and Wikipedia is worthless on that topic, but I assume that if it was made in the testicles, HCG would prevent a problem there.

Yet, another post I read today had someone who could "swear that Dr. John has all his patients on [pregnenolone]". Why would that be the case when he also uses HCG?!?

I want to fully understand what the effects of hormone replacement are before I start. (Or, I should say, much more fully understand, since no one truly understands the body.)

The things I've read have made me fear that getting a healthy testosterone level back and maintaining testicular function with HCG and test in many cases throws the body more out of whack, rather than bringing it into balance, which is what one would hope and expect...

Any thoughts or references, including books at a "soft science" college grad's level, that could help me begin to understand the likely repercussions of starting TRT would be appreciated.

 

[aqualung]

You have real legitimate concerns. Are you sure you even need TRT. A serum count WILL NOT be sure of this. You will most likely wind up more fucked up if you have no injury and you are just biting on the "LowT" male hook. Your problem is probably arleady hormones out of whack and not supply levels. The issue is probably muscle/fat content, etc. And you are making too much estrogen and not enough Androgens. You are on the right track with your concern. It may or may not be correct. Read,...

Thanks for your replies, man.

Unfortunately, I am on the right track, I had my test measured and my TT and FT were both "low-normal". (Although they sure as hell aren't normal let alone healthy for a 27 year old man!)

I took pain meds for years which swiftly replaced all my symptoms of health and a good hormone profile (sex drive, muscle, etc.) with symptoms of low test (no morning wood, fat, losing muscle, lack of drive). I got off the med, but my recovery has only been partial. I'm sure that if tested at my worst, I would've had very low testosterone, completely outside any BS reference range that a lab could come up with.

As far as other things being out of whack, I was pretty much middle of the road with the other hormones tested. I think you're talking about more subtle imbalances, but I can assure you that if such issues exist, they're in addition to the low test.

 

[aqualung]

What do you want? Someone to do all your reseach, thinking and work for you?
Try conceptualizing key words and typing them into Google.
When you get handle on that then graduate to medline.
Then we talk.

Wow, you have the House act, down, Mr. Laurie!

And, yes, I was hoping someone could do a little of my work for me. Or, rather, that they'd already done some of it. Why reinvent the wheel? Sharing knowledge is how humanity progresses. Otherwise, we'd all be naked, huddled in caves (or maybe not huddled -- what, you want me to keep *you* warm?), each of us relearning the art of fire making from square one. No offense, though. I suppose that with regard to this subject, your method is the way it is done.

 

[aqualung]

You could start with a good general reference, like the following. The book is not yesterday's publication and yet it is fairly broad in scope to get started. Sounds like you are at a point that I was in 2003 and being offered a script for TRT. BTW, I turned it down and gave myself a year of study and consult with someone who published on the topic .

anti-aging medicine: Los Gatos Longevity Institute

Thanks man.:tiphat

 

[James23]

Why would you assume you need synthetic testosterone? You need to TEST first to discover whether or not you are primary or secondary.

If you are secondary: use hCG alone.
If you are primary: use a combination of hCG and T.

It makes no sense to inject testosterone when your body is fully capable of making it. If your body is not asking your testicles to make testosterone, you need to find out why.

You will find a TON of misinformation on these boards. Be very cautious.

 

[aqualung]

Why would you assume you need synthetic testosterone? You need to TEST first to discover whether or not you are primary or secondary.

If you are secondary: use hCG alone.
If you are primary: use a combination of hCG and T.

It makes no sense to inject testosterone when your body is fully capable of making it. If your body is not asking your testicles to make testosterone, you need to find out why.

You will find a TON of misinformation on these boards. Be very cautious.

Why do you recommend hCG alone rather than hCG+T? And, if you're primary, then hCG isn't really going to do much... At least, it won't stimulate much testosterone production...

And I'm going to do that clomiphene test, but I'm quite sure that I'm secondary. In certain situations (happier, around a woman I like, and especially when I go tanning), I can tell my testosterone goes high, morning wood, etc.

 

[edjohn88]

Most of us here choose TRT because we want to modify it and or blast and cruise and anything we do that shuts us down means we have to pin anyway.

 

[buck]

Most of us here choose TRT because we want to modify it and or blast and cruise and anything we do that shuts us down means we have to pin anyway.

But how much does that pinning effect other hormones in the body? That seems to be the question that was asked 12 years ago.

 

[lukiss96]

But how much does that pinning effect other hormones in the body? That seems to be the question that was asked 12 years ago.

Right on the money.

 

[nimbleengineer52]

According to the web, exogenous testosterone affects these other hormones:

- reduces LH and FSH (this can lower sperm count, infertility, testicle shrinking).
- can increase the conversation of test to estradiol (important for bone health, mood, sexual function; very high levels can cause breast enlargement, water retention, increased risk of blood clots).
- can lower prolactin (the milking hormone).
- increases or decreases thyroid hormones based on your level of thyroidism (regulates metabolism, growth, body temp).
- can alter the natural rhythm of cortisol secretion (affects immune system, blood pressure, blood sugar, mood).
- can increase GH and IGF-1 levels (no explanation of these needed).
- can increase DHT (responsible for dick growth and other male characteristics, libido too of course; too much can cause acne, hair loss, prostate enlargement, increases risk of prostate cancer).
- can lower pregnenolone and progesterone, because of the reduction of LH and FSH explained above (these two hormones are a precursor that convert into test, estrogen, cortisol, DHEA; low levels can cause fatigue, anxiety, depression, insomnia, memory loss, joint pain, lower libido).