Dying Young: Volume I

[manbat]

Finally got everything back from Quest, just wanted to share with the community and possibly garner some insight.

These labs were pulled after 6 weeks of 200mg/wk Test E EOD on injection day before dosing. I was toying around with 25mg Proviron ED as well, I think I had only been taking it around 2 weeks at time of draw. I enjoyed it to begin with but it seemed to make my E2 go nuts. On the day of, I had taken 12.5mg Aromasin on both previous days, so the fact that my E2 is still 21 is wild. Also added in 5mg daily Cialis for BP control (noticed it was trending up), and recently 20mg telmisartan. Oh, and 7.5mg Tirz weekly, 3IU GH ED.

For reference, my labs on the pharma 100mg/wk TRT protocol showed Total Test of 597.

And before anyone spanks me for the cholesterol, LDL has decreased 60 points and total cholesterol decreased by 30 since last labs, which were admittedly a long time ago (December. Yeah, yeah, I know. 30 lashes in the public square for fucking with my endocrine system without recent baseline bloods). Given that I really only started getting serious about diet and training just before bumping my dose to 200, I’m actually proud of the improvement. Truth be told, I was eating a lot of garbage first responder diet type meals between December and July, so I’m sure my baseline was much worse than what the old labs say.

I haven’t missed a single workout in I don’t even know how long, I’ve cleaned up my diet tremendously, and learned a ton while doing it thanks to all of you here. Currently down to 206.6lbs as of yesterday from 235+ in early July. At 6’1”, the navy bf% calculator has me at 17.5% which I seriously doubt given my saggy bitch pouch of abdominal fat, but it’s still nice to see my bf% be even estimated in the teens.

Since everything looked more or less clean on paper minus the cholesterol I have to continue to work on, I moved the dosage up again to 300/300 Test E/Mast P per week, dosed ED to hopefully finish out the vast majority of my cutting phase over the next 6-8 weeks. Everything else is the same except I cut out the Proviron. I know I won’t be shredded at the end of the cycle, but I’ll be close enough to feel comfortable backing down to a TRT protocol for a bit and focusing more on health markers and continuing to decrease body fat until I’m in a good place to run my first ever bulk.

After lifting weights off and on for going on 15 years, struggling with diet and discipline, and feeling like dog shit for not putting in the work, I must say it’s a great feeling to be this close to being happy with what I see in the mirror, and I owe a lot of it to y’all for teaching me and holding me accountable even without having to speak. I feel more committed knowing you cunts would roast me for failing. So, thank you. Truly.

Alright, that’s enough rambling. I got my ass handed to me all night at work and need to crash. Here’s my labs, ask any questions you want, I’ll answer what I can and am always open to advice. Just don’t bully me too hard or I’ll splurt.

 

[abz94]

You do daily cardio?

 

[buck]

Next time i wouldn't play with a hormone for a short time before getting blood work as that can skew the results and make it more difficult to know where things really are.
Results don't look bad to me but they may not be where i would want to be forever.
I don't get excited about LDL as there are better markers for heart health like trig/hdl ratio, apoB etc.

 

[manbat]

You do daily cardio?

Yessir. 30-45 minutes fasted zone 2 every morning. Always had a high RHR around 95-105, been 79-85 as of late. Boring as all hell but quick, easy results.

Next time i wouldn't play with a hormone for a short time before getting blood work as that can skew the results and make it more difficult to know where things really are.
Results don't look bad to me but they may not be where i would want to be forever.
I don't get excited about LDL as there are better markers for heart health like trig/hdl ratio, apoB etc.

Absolutely. Lessons learned. Really wasn’t even worth the hassle, honestly. I just wanted the fabled libido boost from Proviron, but in reality I just needed to get E2 in check.

Definitely not satisfied with the results in the long term, just happy to know I’m not in readily apparent danger of keeling over in the street lol. And I’ll have to check on the apoB test, I know that’s something I need to look into.

Thanks for the reply!

 

[Elektrobot]

been 79-85 as of late

That can be the telmisartan

Ignore any body fat percentage that a machine or calculation gives you.

If you can grab a hand full of tiddy by your armpit, or on your sides.... that's all you need to know that you aren't lean.

Increasing test and total anabolics before reaching your fat loss goals and while having unhealthy biomarkers is..... a decision. Especially when you are just getting started. If you were a career bodybuilder who had to do it and put competition success over your health- that would be one thing. But being someone who is still in the middle of a lifestyle change and weight loss journey...... taking pro risks is outside of your lane. Finish one task first. Lose the weight. Get healthy.

Expecting good results from a machine that isn't working right is kinda silly, right? Why think of it any differently when it comes to your body?

You wouldn't speed up in a broken car... because it's just going to make it's problems worse faster. Don't speed up your body when it isn't working right.... because it will only make the problems get worse faster.

Loose the fat. Get down to a true 10%. Anabolics don't control that. Food controls that. You don't need anabolics to lose weight.

If Trizz helps you, great. HGH is a great fat burner.

Fix your cholesterol. Don't just get it "in range". Fix it. "In range" is bullshit general population numbers. The general population does not use anabolic steroids. If you plan to do things the general public doesn't do, don't use their numbers.

If you've lived a lifestyle of being overweight and having high cholesterol, go get a calcium score test. We all know what the effects of high cholesterol are. To think that you escaped having high cholesterol without suffering any of the problems it causes would not be logical.

 

[Elektrobot]

I don't mean to be a rainy cunt on your sunny picnic

 

[manbat]

Haha, absolutely not. If there’s one thing I’ve learned being here it’s that people will smack you in the face with the big black cock of truth quite regularly and you need to be ready to hear it.

I actually really appreciate the input, man, thank you. And yeah, I will admit I fell victim to the slippery slope pretty quick. Originally sought out the forums just for tirz and a replacement source for my pharma trt since I felt awful at 100mg/wk and there are no real endocrinologists available to work with me out in bumfuck nowhere. You’re right, though, I know I’m jumping the gun. Even though I’m not solely relying on pharmacology to see me through, I’m fighting a battle on multiple fronts trying to deal with the sides that come with AAS at a higher bf% while simultaneously dialing in diet, exercise, school and work. Not my brightest decision, but I just couldn’t resist dipping a toe in Satan’s Muscle Juice after hearing everyone rave about it for so long. Plus the lightning fast progress is addicting as all hell, even with the prices you pay. Instant gratification is a bitch. That said, I do have a hard limit on current dosage and time span, and absolutely will pull back once these 6 weeks are over or before if anything goes awry. At least I didn’t show up to the thread blasting a gram of test and 600 Tren a week lol. I will also look into the calcium test, that’s been on my to-do list for a minute now, just gotta find the time.

 

[Elektrobot]

I just couldn’t resist dipping a toe in Satan’s Muscle Juice

 

[manbat]

View attachment 346502

 

[abz94]

Yessir. 30-45 minutes fasted zone 2 every morning. Always had a high RHR around 95-105, been 79-85 as of late. Boring as all hell but quick, easy results.



Absolutely. Lessons learned. Really wasn’t even worth the hassle, honestly. I just wanted the fabled libido boost from Proviron, but in reality I just needed to get E2 in check.

Definitely not satisfied with the results in the long term, just happy to know I’m not in readily apparent danger of keeling over in the street lol. And I’ll have to check on the apoB test, I know that’s something I need to look into.

Thanks for the reply!

Try supplementing citrus bergamot, it has helped me with lipids.

 

[Type-IIx]

Congrats on substantial progress! Getting even 75% into the full mindset feels better than self-flagellation, and most guys fail to get their base-line bloods, true base-line – as important as they are!

I think you should seriously think about trying a statin with those lipids, TBH – especially since you're ramping up AAS doses.

There's a low risk of myalgia (muscle pain) with HMG-CoA reductase inhibition by statins but they do actually work.

There are also strong arguments for using a battery of statin-alternatives instead like ezetimibe, but usually not until you at least try a statin and work through that drug class first, selecting those with lower risk of myalgia that still serve the task of reducing your cardiovascular-thrombotic risks!

Besides the potential muscle pain (or muscle breakdown, rhabdomyolysis, to which I'd respond look at your training especially volume first), what other reason do you have for apparently avoiding a statin?

I think it was very wise to address the lifestyle issue first and foremost, but now it's been some time, and that's still marked dyslipidemia that'll probably not improve with the dose increase! I've seen lifestyle changes make way larger impacts on dyslipidemia by this point, which is why I mention it. You may very well make some continued progress and bring down lipids some more, but if I were a betting man, I think you might have some genetic proclivity towards dyslipidemia like many people based on this.

 

[abz94]

Congrats on substantial progress! Getting even 75% into the full mindset feels better than self-flagellation, and most guys fail to get their base-line bloods, true base-line – as important as they are!

I think you should seriously think about trying a statin with those lipids, TBH – especially since you're ramping up AAS doses.

There's a low risk of myalgia (muscle pain) with HMG-CoA reductase inhibition by statins but they do actually work.

There are also strong arguments for using a battery of statin-alternatives instead like ezetimibe, but usually not until you at least try a statin and work through that drug class first, selecting those with lower risk of myalgia that still serve the task of reducing your cardiovascular-thrombotic risks!

Besides the potential muscle pain (or muscle breakdown, rhabdomyolysis, to which I'd respond look at your training especially volume first), what other reason do you have for apparently avoiding a statin?

I think it was very wise to address the lifestyle issue first and foremost, but now it's been some time, and that's still marked dyslipidemia that'll probably not improve with the dose increase! I've seen lifestyle changes make way larger impacts on dyslipidemia by this point, which is why I mention it. You may very well make some continued progress and bring down lipids some more, but if I were a betting man, I think you might have some genetic proclivity towards dyslipidemia like many people based on this.

This is so useful. Thanks for that great explanation.

 

[manbat]

Congrats on substantial progress! Getting even 75% into the full mindset feels better than self-flagellation, and most guys fail to get their base-line bloods, true base-line – as important as they are!

I think you should seriously think about trying a statin with those lipids, TBH – especially since you're ramping up AAS doses.

There's a low risk of myalgia (muscle pain) with HMG-CoA reductase inhibition by statins but they do actually work.

There are also strong arguments for using a battery of statin-alternatives instead like ezetimibe, but usually not until you at least try a statin and work through that drug class first, selecting those with lower risk of myalgia that still serve the task of reducing your cardiovascular-thrombotic risks!

Besides the potential muscle pain (or muscle breakdown, rhabdomyolysis, to which I'd respond look at your training especially volume first), what other reason do you have for apparently avoiding a statin?

I think it was very wise to address the lifestyle issue first and foremost, but now it's been some time, and that's still marked dyslipidemia that'll probably not improve with the dose increase! I've seen lifestyle changes make way larger impacts on dyslipidemia by this point, which is why I mention it. You may very well make some continued progress and bring down lipids some more, but if I were a betting man, I think you might have some genetic proclivity towards dyslipidemia like many people based on this.

Sorry for the late reply, I’ve been too slammed to do anything aside from shitpost lately. Thank you for your advice and general input, it is very much appreciated, especially with the reputation you hold here.

I wouldn’t say I’m intentionally avoiding a statin or even just ezetemibe for that matter. In fact, I’m more than receptive to the idea. I’m not usually one to shy away from a potentially useful tool because of the possibility of side effects. I just wanted to take a shot at attempting to get a handle on cholesterol with lifestyle changes and healthy diet first before moving on to pharmacological solutions (aside from supplements, that is). Plus, I wasn’t even sure where I was at lipid wise directly before starting AAS other than a guesstimate of “probably bad,” so I wasn’t sure I would even need pharma assistance until my most recent labs came back.

That said, I did bring up my lab values with my PCP during my 90 day checkup and asked his opinion on statin usage, to which he replied he “wouldn’t be too worried about it” at my age. While I can appreciate the fact that he’s not the type to blindly throw pills at everything, I believe now after some thought that the issue is worth pressing. He is normally very agreeable and will more or less write whatever I ask, given I have done my research on it and present a solid use case. I am a little gun shy of disclosing AAS usage to him, even though I know he wouldn't give a flying fuck and would probably adjust my treatment plan accordingly. After all, he’s the one that originally recommended me sourcing a GLP online. Guess I’m just afraid of getting my hand slapped by the big scawy medicine man lol.

As for genetic dyslipidemia, you’re more than likely right on the money. Although, given that everyone in my family is a huge advocate of the southern American diet (i.e. fry the ever living shit out of everything in sight), I’ve often wondered if it’s actually inherited rather than cultivated over time.

Assuming my doc is on board with trialing statin use, would you recommend using the drug(s) in conjunction with supplements, or would a statin mitigate the necessity of OTC solutions? I’m currently taking fish oil, flush niacin, citrus bergamot, D3, magnesium complex and a generic multi daily.

Again, thank you for stopping by and offering wisdom. If I wasn’t currently confined to the meager wages of a public service worker, I’d definitely be trying to put you on retainer lol. Digging through years of forum posts and Reddit threads searching for relevant information does have its charm, though, I suppose.

Try supplementing citrus bergamot, it has helped me with lipids.

Already on it, haha. How much are you taking daily? I started at 500mg, but lately I’ve heard that I should titrate up to 1g.

 

[buck]

Sorry for the late reply, I’ve been too slammed to do anything aside from shitpost lately. Thank you for your advice and general input, it is very much appreciated, especially with the reputation you hold here.

I wouldn’t say I’m intentionally avoiding a statin or even just ezetemibe for that matter. In fact, I’m more than receptive to the idea. I’m not usually one to shy away from a potentially useful tool because of the possibility of side effects. I just wanted to take a shot at attempting to get a handle on cholesterol with lifestyle changes and healthy diet first before moving on to pharmacological solutions (aside from supplements, that is). Plus, I wasn’t even sure where I was at lipid wise directly before starting AAS other than a guesstimate of “probably bad,” so I wasn’t sure I would even need pharma assistance until my most recent labs came back.

That said, I did bring up my lab values with my PCP during my 90 day checkup and asked his opinion on statin usage, to which he replied he “wouldn’t be too worried about it” at my age. While I can appreciate the fact that he’s not the type to blindly throw pills at everything, I believe now after some thought that the issue is worth pressing. He is normally very agreeable and will more or less write whatever I ask, given I have done my research on it and present a solid use case. I am a little gun shy of disclosing AAS usage to him, even though I know he wouldn't give a flying fuck and would probably adjust my treatment plan accordingly. After all, he’s the one that originally recommended me sourcing a GLP online. Guess I’m just afraid of getting my hand slapped by the big scawy medicine man lol.

As for genetic dyslipidemia, you’re more than likely right on the money. Although, given that everyone in my family is a huge advocate of the southern American diet (i.e. fry the ever living shit out of everything in sight), I’ve often wondered if it’s actually inherited rather than cultivated over time.

Assuming my doc is on board with trialing statin use, would you recommend using the drug(s) in conjunction with supplements, or would a statin mitigate the necessity of OTC solutions? I’m currently taking fish oil, flush niacin, citrus bergamot, D3, magnesium complex and a generic multi daily.

Again, thank you for stopping by and offering wisdom. If I wasn’t currently confined to the meager wages of a public service worker, I’d definitely be trying to put you on retainer lol. Digging through years of forum posts and Reddit threads searching for relevant information does have its charm, though, I suppose.



Already on it, haha. How much are you taking daily? I started at 500mg, but lately I’ve heard that I should titrate up to 1g.

Blood tests will let you know how much citrus bergamot you need. I take 600mg extract at a 25/1 and it lowers my levels more then enough.

 

[eryximachus]

to which he replied he “wouldn’t be too worried about it” at my age.

I've been told that and I'm in my 40s.

I'm not going to say don't trust doctors, but you need to steer them.

 

[abz94]

Sorry for the late reply, I’ve been too slammed to do anything aside from shitpost lately. Thank you for your advice and general input, it is very much appreciated, especially with the reputation you hold here.

I wouldn’t say I’m intentionally avoiding a statin or even just ezetemibe for that matter. In fact, I’m more than receptive to the idea. I’m not usually one to shy away from a potentially useful tool because of the possibility of side effects. I just wanted to take a shot at attempting to get a handle on cholesterol with lifestyle changes and healthy diet first before moving on to pharmacological solutions (aside from supplements, that is). Plus, I wasn’t even sure where I was at lipid wise directly before starting AAS other than a guesstimate of “probably bad,” so I wasn’t sure I would even need pharma assistance until my most recent labs came back.

That said, I did bring up my lab values with my PCP during my 90 day checkup and asked his opinion on statin usage, to which he replied he “wouldn’t be too worried about it” at my age. While I can appreciate the fact that he’s not the type to blindly throw pills at everything, I believe now after some thought that the issue is worth pressing. He is normally very agreeable and will more or less write whatever I ask, given I have done my research on it and present a solid use case. I am a little gun shy of disclosing AAS usage to him, even though I know he wouldn't give a flying fuck and would probably adjust my treatment plan accordingly. After all, he’s the one that originally recommended me sourcing a GLP online. Guess I’m just afraid of getting my hand slapped by the big scawy medicine man lol.

As for genetic dyslipidemia, you’re more than likely right on the money. Although, given that everyone in my family is a huge advocate of the southern American diet (i.e. fry the ever living shit out of everything in sight), I’ve often wondered if it’s actually inherited rather than cultivated over time.

Assuming my doc is on board with trialing statin use, would you recommend using the drug(s) in conjunction with supplements, or would a statin mitigate the necessity of OTC solutions? I’m currently taking fish oil, flush niacin, citrus bergamot, D3, magnesium complex and a generic multi daily.

Again, thank you for stopping by and offering wisdom. If I wasn’t currently confined to the meager wages of a public service worker, I’d definitely be trying to put you on retainer lol. Digging through years of forum posts and Reddit threads searching for relevant information does have its charm, though, I suppose.



Already on it, haha. How much are you taking daily? I started at 500mg, but lately I’ve heard that I should titrate up to 1g.

I take a gram yea.