Superior1
New Member
http://forum.lef.org/forum17/topic1002600.html#1002600
It's a post I made on LEF a year ago.
I'm mostly curious about MAL (the mods) response at the end.
*************************post**********************
T-Therapy for heart Disease (testosterone) posted by Supie 2003-03-14 03:00:56 Watch Topic
'Hello. I am a regualr over at some promenent bodybuilding boards and found this site. Although the activity level is low, it looks to be a great site. I'm just dropping off this article I wrote that relates to T-therapy and heart disease. I don't claim to be a writer but like to relay my theories and get input. This again was written primarily for AS using body builders.
For many many years doctors had used LDL cholestoral (bad stuff)as the primary factor for determining a risk for heart diease, primarily heart attack and stroke. Although only half the people that had a heart attack actually had high LDL. So what else could it be they wondered? Recently they have found that those with high CRP (C-reactive peptides or proteins) had a much higher risk than high LDL cholestoral. Now CRPs are dumped into the system when it notices plaque build up in the vessels and arteries. Plaque build up is from high saturated fats. But there are additional factors as well. When your body senses this plaque it sends white bloods cells (Platelets) to the aid. the whiteblood cells are partly to blame for the stroke and attacks and its for this reason. plaque is actually debris of calcium buildup, liquified cholesterol and just dead cells. The plaque in and of it self is not the problem. Only the begininng of the snow ball effect.
The white blood cells actually begain breaking this tissue and debris up. This debris is covered by a dome like cap and the white blood cells that are doing there jobs helping actually at the same rate causes more problems, and this is why. Once the dome like caps weaken due to the break up of debris it is vulnerable to rupture, high blood presuure has been know to cause rupture, And once a rupture occurs all that debris dumps into the bloodstream and eventually clogs. If in the heart vessels a heart attack if in the neck area a stroke. but that is not the only culprit, obesity is also a factor and this is why, fats cells many people think they are dormant and just lie there, but they are far from passive, they dump interluekin6 into the blood stream which further triggers and inflammatory response, causing a higher risk factor for rupture of the plaque debris build up. so having high blood pressure and high BF levels doulbe the risk. interluekin 6 tells the liver to churn out CRP the the reason that CRP is high. And the reason that CRP is a good if not better determining factor for heart disease.
So you can have normal cholesterol but still be at risk for this reason. Doctors consider many factors when it comes to putting people on statins (cholesterol reducing drugs) the are now factoring in LDL /CRP/ and obesity, when before they pretty much just factored LDL.
OK so why the inflammation in the first place???
Saturated fats produce homocysteine which actually damages the blood vessels. Scientists have discovered one of the largest organs in the body. Some have said this is the skin but this is not true. Our blood vessels are lined with a single layer of cells called the endothelium. See link http://www.innerbody.com/image/card05.html And since we have an estimated 100,000 miles or arteries vessels and capillaries they estimate that this is now the largest organ in the body. This is what the Sat fats damage. This single teflon layer. And they have said 1 yes 1 fat meal can damage it. Fortunately unsaturated fats heal it.... A damaged endothium has now been tagged as the single biggest factor for heart disease. Why? Well With a healthy endothilium there is virtually no risk for plaque build up and there for no needs to send platletts on high aleart which actually as we remeber cause the break up of debris which weakens the cap of the abcess like dome covering the plaque, the endothilum also produces prostacyclin which regulates blood flow. So if you eating the good fats you for the most part avoid the snow ball effect. As bodybuilders we typically do not have to worry about heart disease. One big factor is our low body fat levels. We do not dump interluekin6 into the blood stream even if we are on a short high calorie diet with lots a steak and even if we do damage our endothilium. We might get some placue build up but we have a fewfactors that do not cause the extra immflammatory responses that put the dome at higher risk for rupture. Plus excercise is said to aid in endothelial health. With a healthy endothilium you don't have the risk for plaque build up. Make sense so far?? Now whay have I learned all this. As some of you know I found a lot of time on my hands and studied out as much as I could. What I was attempting to do is to find out how anabolics could play a role in aiding heart disease.. WHAT?? Steroids kill!! Ok. If your sick and unhealthy fat and nasty and you jump and a cycle and lie round they house all day. Yes I agree an anabolic cycle is not the best thing you should be partaking in. This is many of the studies the anti-anabolic activists use is studies on already sick people on long long term anabolic and androgenic therapy. You rarely hear about studies done on healty body builders. For one the Govt. will not fund those studies. But they are begining to realize that old geriatric men are at high risk due to low Test levels. And my theory is this.....
We all know what Anabolics do they increase nitrogen retention thus protein synthesis. This is why we can build. Due to this anabolic response. Anabolics are also block cortisol so they have an anti-catabolic effect. But how could anabolics aid in the reduction of heart disease? Some doctors are urging studied in test therapy for sexual disfunction as well as over all well being. The National Institue of health has said they won't fund the study because they beleive long term test can result in problems. They are friggin blinded by bias!! Anyway. In 1998 a scientist discovered another substance produces by the endothilium and that is NO or Nitric Oxide. hummm... There are some supplement companies pumping out some supps that help NO level to stay active longer. Thus causing a hemodialatory response which is dialation of the blood vessels in order to transport more blood.
My theory is T therapy upregulates nitric oxide synthase, which produces nitric oxide , which is beneficial to the total NO level in the blood. Since it is nitrogen based. This could in fact be the reason that low test levels in old men have been linked to heart disease. To bad we can't perform a firm large scale studies. due to lack of govt. funding. Anyway. I am not sure how I touched on all this. I was real real bored on day and took a lot of notes from several publications. I have more ranting to do but ths is not the place.
I just found this one>>
15) Shapiro J, et al. "Testosterone and other anabolic steroids as cardiovascular drugs." Am J Ther 1999 May;6(3):167-74
In summary keep sat fats to a minimum eat the leanest cuts of beef and fish and fatty fish, yes I said fatty fish!! which are usually other than white fishes, salmon makeral etc. and be sure to get flax oil ,fish oils (omega3's) They will help you avoid many problems that might come with large food consumptions and higher body fats levels during bulking as well as heavy androgen/anabolic use which can raise blood pressure. Blood pressure going up some in AS user is not all bad if not off the charts. thedamage comes is when thisplaque is lying in wait to be dilodged. Since we are for the most part healthy in every other area that cuases heart disease we are virtually not at risk. Omega 3 hinder blood clotting as stated in the original post due to it strenghtening the endothilium, Since a healthy endothilium does not fall prey to plaque build up ,the body does not send out platelets that really begin the snow ball rolling. That is a major player.. I know we never think about our risk of heart disease when pounding down the calories and jacking up the juice. because in reality we typicall have lower bf levels most of the year as well as regular excerise periods which put us in the lowest risk factors even with binge eating and hefty cycles during bulking. If we did all bad things year round we might be at risk, but we do not. We are healthy individuals so splurges and cycles do not have the health effects that the media scream about. We are to active and healthy for that!!! '
Mod: Do so at your own risk. Overall a lot of intersting and provocative material. Personally, I still believe that "AS" "therapy" is drug abuse.And it rightly remains illegal in most states. MAL
**************************end post**********************
It's a post I made on LEF a year ago.
I'm mostly curious about MAL (the mods) response at the end.
*************************post**********************
T-Therapy for heart Disease (testosterone) posted by Supie 2003-03-14 03:00:56 Watch Topic
'Hello. I am a regualr over at some promenent bodybuilding boards and found this site. Although the activity level is low, it looks to be a great site. I'm just dropping off this article I wrote that relates to T-therapy and heart disease. I don't claim to be a writer but like to relay my theories and get input. This again was written primarily for AS using body builders.
For many many years doctors had used LDL cholestoral (bad stuff)as the primary factor for determining a risk for heart diease, primarily heart attack and stroke. Although only half the people that had a heart attack actually had high LDL. So what else could it be they wondered? Recently they have found that those with high CRP (C-reactive peptides or proteins) had a much higher risk than high LDL cholestoral. Now CRPs are dumped into the system when it notices plaque build up in the vessels and arteries. Plaque build up is from high saturated fats. But there are additional factors as well. When your body senses this plaque it sends white bloods cells (Platelets) to the aid. the whiteblood cells are partly to blame for the stroke and attacks and its for this reason. plaque is actually debris of calcium buildup, liquified cholesterol and just dead cells. The plaque in and of it self is not the problem. Only the begininng of the snow ball effect.
The white blood cells actually begain breaking this tissue and debris up. This debris is covered by a dome like cap and the white blood cells that are doing there jobs helping actually at the same rate causes more problems, and this is why. Once the dome like caps weaken due to the break up of debris it is vulnerable to rupture, high blood presuure has been know to cause rupture, And once a rupture occurs all that debris dumps into the bloodstream and eventually clogs. If in the heart vessels a heart attack if in the neck area a stroke. but that is not the only culprit, obesity is also a factor and this is why, fats cells many people think they are dormant and just lie there, but they are far from passive, they dump interluekin6 into the blood stream which further triggers and inflammatory response, causing a higher risk factor for rupture of the plaque debris build up. so having high blood pressure and high BF levels doulbe the risk. interluekin 6 tells the liver to churn out CRP the the reason that CRP is high. And the reason that CRP is a good if not better determining factor for heart disease.
So you can have normal cholesterol but still be at risk for this reason. Doctors consider many factors when it comes to putting people on statins (cholesterol reducing drugs) the are now factoring in LDL /CRP/ and obesity, when before they pretty much just factored LDL.
OK so why the inflammation in the first place???
Saturated fats produce homocysteine which actually damages the blood vessels. Scientists have discovered one of the largest organs in the body. Some have said this is the skin but this is not true. Our blood vessels are lined with a single layer of cells called the endothelium. See link http://www.innerbody.com/image/card05.html And since we have an estimated 100,000 miles or arteries vessels and capillaries they estimate that this is now the largest organ in the body. This is what the Sat fats damage. This single teflon layer. And they have said 1 yes 1 fat meal can damage it. Fortunately unsaturated fats heal it.... A damaged endothium has now been tagged as the single biggest factor for heart disease. Why? Well With a healthy endothilium there is virtually no risk for plaque build up and there for no needs to send platletts on high aleart which actually as we remeber cause the break up of debris which weakens the cap of the abcess like dome covering the plaque, the endothilum also produces prostacyclin which regulates blood flow. So if you eating the good fats you for the most part avoid the snow ball effect. As bodybuilders we typically do not have to worry about heart disease. One big factor is our low body fat levels. We do not dump interluekin6 into the blood stream even if we are on a short high calorie diet with lots a steak and even if we do damage our endothilium. We might get some placue build up but we have a fewfactors that do not cause the extra immflammatory responses that put the dome at higher risk for rupture. Plus excercise is said to aid in endothelial health. With a healthy endothilium you don't have the risk for plaque build up. Make sense so far?? Now whay have I learned all this. As some of you know I found a lot of time on my hands and studied out as much as I could. What I was attempting to do is to find out how anabolics could play a role in aiding heart disease.. WHAT?? Steroids kill!! Ok. If your sick and unhealthy fat and nasty and you jump and a cycle and lie round they house all day. Yes I agree an anabolic cycle is not the best thing you should be partaking in. This is many of the studies the anti-anabolic activists use is studies on already sick people on long long term anabolic and androgenic therapy. You rarely hear about studies done on healty body builders. For one the Govt. will not fund those studies. But they are begining to realize that old geriatric men are at high risk due to low Test levels. And my theory is this.....
We all know what Anabolics do they increase nitrogen retention thus protein synthesis. This is why we can build. Due to this anabolic response. Anabolics are also block cortisol so they have an anti-catabolic effect. But how could anabolics aid in the reduction of heart disease? Some doctors are urging studied in test therapy for sexual disfunction as well as over all well being. The National Institue of health has said they won't fund the study because they beleive long term test can result in problems. They are friggin blinded by bias!! Anyway. In 1998 a scientist discovered another substance produces by the endothilium and that is NO or Nitric Oxide. hummm... There are some supplement companies pumping out some supps that help NO level to stay active longer. Thus causing a hemodialatory response which is dialation of the blood vessels in order to transport more blood.
My theory is T therapy upregulates nitric oxide synthase, which produces nitric oxide , which is beneficial to the total NO level in the blood. Since it is nitrogen based. This could in fact be the reason that low test levels in old men have been linked to heart disease. To bad we can't perform a firm large scale studies. due to lack of govt. funding. Anyway. I am not sure how I touched on all this. I was real real bored on day and took a lot of notes from several publications. I have more ranting to do but ths is not the place.
I just found this one>>
15) Shapiro J, et al. "Testosterone and other anabolic steroids as cardiovascular drugs." Am J Ther 1999 May;6(3):167-74
In summary keep sat fats to a minimum eat the leanest cuts of beef and fish and fatty fish, yes I said fatty fish!! which are usually other than white fishes, salmon makeral etc. and be sure to get flax oil ,fish oils (omega3's) They will help you avoid many problems that might come with large food consumptions and higher body fats levels during bulking as well as heavy androgen/anabolic use which can raise blood pressure. Blood pressure going up some in AS user is not all bad if not off the charts. thedamage comes is when thisplaque is lying in wait to be dilodged. Since we are for the most part healthy in every other area that cuases heart disease we are virtually not at risk. Omega 3 hinder blood clotting as stated in the original post due to it strenghtening the endothilium, Since a healthy endothilium does not fall prey to plaque build up ,the body does not send out platelets that really begin the snow ball rolling. That is a major player.. I know we never think about our risk of heart disease when pounding down the calories and jacking up the juice. because in reality we typicall have lower bf levels most of the year as well as regular excerise periods which put us in the lowest risk factors even with binge eating and hefty cycles during bulking. If we did all bad things year round we might be at risk, but we do not. We are healthy individuals so splurges and cycles do not have the health effects that the media scream about. We are to active and healthy for that!!! '
Mod: Do so at your own risk. Overall a lot of intersting and provocative material. Personally, I still believe that "AS" "therapy" is drug abuse.And it rightly remains illegal in most states. MAL
**************************end post**********************
