At a crossroads, healthy vs muscle

[Theworm]

43, struggle with BP issues despite being on 300 mg irbesartan a day, celery seed extract, 5mg cialis....

when I’m on 300 deca and 400 test , I feel amazing, but my bp becomes too high despite phlebotomy and increase meds etc. so I’m struggling with health as I want the live as long as possible vs feeling and looking great.

I’m on 100 mg test now and my bp is better but I feel tired abs sluggish. I do have a lot of young kids, run a biz so stress is there and unavoidable as well as sleep is hit or miss with a new born.

Is there a way to increase muscle but not jeopardize health? My TT on current protocol is between 600 and 700.

@Type-IIx

 

[MadBret]

Is 600-700 your trough or peak? On 150mg/week, my trough is between 550-650. I am a few years older than you and also struggle with keeping bp in check. It's actually became more stable and lower since starting trt.

These days, I'm happy with 130/80. I sometimes creep up to the 140s/80-90 which I don't really like though I've been worse than this in the past. I take 40mg of Lisinopril and 360mg of diltiazem. It's strange to me how being on test has actually helped bp for me but I've read of others having the same experience. Also, losing some weight and gaining some lbm has likely helped.

 

[Theworm]

Is 600-700 your trough or peak? On 150mg/week, my trough is between 550-650. I am a few years older than you and also struggle with keeping bp in check. It's actually became more stable and lower since starting trt.

These days, I'm happy with 130/80. I sometimes creep up to the 140s/80-90 which I don't really like though I've been worse than this in the past. I take 40mg of Lisinopril and 360mg of diltiazem. It's strange to me how being on test has actually helped bp for me but I've read of others having the same experience. Also, losing some weight and gaining some lbm has likely helped.

I inject EOD so 6-700 is likely a stable baseline. Maybe I’ll go up to 150mg test a week, but I hate that I look skinny, but fat around stomach and I know diet and exercise help but wow when I’m on test and deca, it takes zero effort.
On my trt I workout hard and diet good, just don’t see much happening

 

[NBE]

Seems simple but try this

https : //dradrianm d . com/store/pc/bp-natrelief-best-natural-blood-pressure-lowering-supplement-with-rauwolfia

 

[Megadick3000]

Health bro. You have a lot of kids and question if health or vanity should be your priority??

Do you want to be there for your children? Or do you want to be there for your reflection in a mirror?

Answer seems obvious to me.

 

[Theworm]

Health bro. You have a lot of kids and question if health or vanity should be your priority??

Do you want to be there for your children? Or do you want to be there for your reflection in a mirror?

Answer seems obvious to me.

Right but I also want to feel good too, not live 50 more years feeling like an 80 year old...
I think I should up test to 150 and stay there , hopefully a TT around 1100 wouldn’t be horribly bad

 

[SonhoDourado]

Bloodwork first and then a call to a TRT clinic. Find out first if your blood values are all within range. Make sure your'e not deficient in any micro or macro nutrients that could be causing the sluggish feeling. Always good to get a baseline assessment!

There will surely be a much different feeling coming from 400mg of Test down to 100! You may in fact need more. Are you using pharm grade/rx test or UGL? That can also make a difference as at least with pharm grade you'll know 100% what you're getting mg per mg. Case in point i went in for bloods using 200mg of UGL test a few years back, was a new lab and wanted to see where it put me level wise. 8 days after last shot i was at 1796 ng/dl! That stuff was dosed properly or slightly higher so i backed down to 150-160 and retested at 1050ish, dr was much happier.

IMHO i would enlist the help of a clinic or urologist/endo, especially seeing as you're already hypertensive and on meds for it. Feeling good is paramount in life yet if you're harming yourself in the process what's the point? Blood pressure issues can take a long time to do damage but once done there is no reversing the damage. While its a slow progression at times it almost always ends with issues with kidneys, heart,and type 2 diabetes.

Some things that have helped me tremendously are 1 gallon of water per day, lower carb diet (100-150 grams a day), Liver and Organ defender by 5%,beetroot powder, and quality fish oil at 3-6grams a day. Usually i'll do a Animal Omega in the am after gym and Nordic Naturals after work with dinner. Cardio of any type is also super important and often overlooked. Yoga,Hiking,Walking,BJJ, whatever you like to do that gets the heart pumping. Often overlooked as well is bodyweight. Muscle or not the heavier you are the higher BP will rise. Im the same age as you brother and i miss being 220lbs looking like a bull. I dont however miss the elevated b.p and getting winded scaling a flight of stairs!

Sorry if this was so long and drawn out, just hoped to provide a few options to look into. Wishing you luck on feeling better and being healthy!

 

[Theworm]

Bloodwork first and then a call to a TRT clinic. Find out first if your blood values are all within range. Make sure your'e not deficient in any micro or macro nutrients that could be causing the sluggish feeling. Always good to get a baseline assessment!

There will surely be a much different feeling coming from 400mg of Test down to 100! You may in fact need more. Are you using pharm grade/rx test or UGL? That can also make a difference as at least with pharm grade you'll know 100% what you're getting mg per mg. Case in point i went in for bloods using 200mg of UGL test a few years back, was a new lab and wanted to see where it put me level wise. 8 days after last shot i was at 1796 ng/dl! That stuff was dosed properly or slightly higher so i backed down to 150-160 and retested at 1050ish, dr was much happier.

IMHO i would enlist the help of a clinic or urologist/endo, especially seeing as you're already hypertensive and on meds for it. Feeling good is paramount in life yet if you're harming yourself in the process what's the point? Blood pressure issues can take a long time to do damage but once done there is no reversing the damage. While its a slow progression at times it almost always ends with issues with kidneys, heart,and type 2 diabetes.

Some things that have helped me tremendously are 1 gallon of water per day, lower carb diet (100-150 grams a day), Liver and Organ defender by 5%,beetroot powder, and quality fish oil at 3-6grams a day. Usually i'll do a Animal Omega in the am after gym and Nordic Naturals after work with dinner. Cardio of any type is also super important and often overlooked. Yoga,Hiking,Walking,BJJ, whatever you like to do that gets the heart pumping. Often overlooked as well is bodyweight. Muscle or not the heavier you are the higher BP will rise. Im the same age as you brother and i miss being 220lbs looking like a bull. I dont however miss the elevated b.p and getting winded scaling a flight of stairs!

Sorry if this was so long and drawn out, just hoped to provide a few options to look into. Wishing you luck on feeling better and being healthy!

Thanks for responding!
I do get blood work monthly, labs all within range. I do use a trt clinic (defy) and my TT is around 700, which is baseline as I inject EOD. I use Depot test from Pfizer so dosing isn’t an issue.

One clinic told me my TT should be around 1000 and I’ll feel better; but Peter Bond on here says for longevity the TT should be around 500.

I guess I’m trying to get the best from both worlds. I see Milos running 500 test x 30 years, but he can have a heart attack (or higher chance) any day...

 

[malfeasance]

Short answer, no, there is no healthy way to do supra physiological doses of testosterone and add size beyond what you body naturally supports.

Being bigger is a risk factor for blood pressure all by itself.

It's good that you are paying attention. Most guys just ignore this stuff (until they can't).

You did not mention cardio. I would suggest you get on a regular cardio schedule, and maybe progress with it (like you do with weights, adding time and intensity over time). It may help with blood pressure, but it will have health benefits for you even if it does not lower blood pressure.

I do cardio while monitoring my heart rate. After a long break from cardio, I notice a difference in heart rate after even the first session. What I mean is, from the first workout to the next, my heart rate goes down doing the same thing. The body adapts very quickly, so get on it and see if this helps you (it will help at many things, from heart health to sexual performance to general athleticism, and maybe muscle gain due to capillary health).

 

[Theworm]

Short answer, no, there is no healthy way to do supra physiological doses of testosterone and add size beyond what you body naturally supports.

Being bigger is a risk factor for blood pressure all by itself.

It's good that you are paying attention. Most guys just ignore this stuff (until they can't).

You did not mention cardio. I would suggest you get on a regular cardio schedule, and maybe progress with it (like you do with weights, adding time and intensity over time). It may help with blood pressure, but it will have health benefits for you even if it does not lower blood pressure.

I do cardio while monitoring my heart rate. After a long break from cardio, I notice a difference in heart rate after even the first session. What I mean is, from the first workout to the next, my heart rate goes down doing the same thing. The body adapts very quickly, so get on it and see if this helps you (it will help at many things, from heart health to sexual performance to general athleticism, and maybe muscle gain due to capillary health).

Spot on. Just hate how small I am, would be be horribly bad to do once a year, 8 week blast of prop and oxandrolone so build lean gains then maintain throughout the year on 100mg? I know it’s hard to answer but generally speaking

 

[MR_Midas]

Spot on. Just hate how small I am, would be be horribly bad to do once a year, 8 week blast of prop and oxandrolone so build lean gains then maintain throughout the year on 100mg? I know it’s hard to answer but generally speaking

I'm not sure that in 8 weeks with this approach you will gain something.

 

[TrenTrenTren]

Short answer, no, there is no healthy way to do supra physiological doses of testosterone and add size beyond what you body naturally supports.

Being bigger is a risk factor for blood pressure all by itself.

It's good that you are paying attention. Most guys just ignore this stuff (until they can't).

You did not mention cardio. I would suggest you get on a regular cardio schedule, and maybe progress with it (like you do with weights, adding time and intensity over time). It may help with blood pressure, but it will have health benefits for you even if it does not lower blood pressure.

I do cardio while monitoring my heart rate. After a long break from cardio, I notice a difference in heart rate after even the first session. What I mean is, from the first workout to the next, my heart rate goes down doing the same thing. The body adapts very quickly, so get on it and see if this helps you (it will help at many things, from heart health to sexual performance to general athleticism, and maybe muscle gain due to capillary health).

Thanks Malf. You are a resource here brotha.

 

[Jayne Scott]

Your health should take precedent over any PED.

 

[MR_Midas]

Your health should take precedent over any PED.

Few people understand this, that the value of health is above all and no results and appearance are worth health.

 

[Theworm]

Few people understand this, that the value of health is above all and no results and appearance are worth health.

Understand

So do u ever blast or cycle?

@malfeasance : don’t think it’s even worth one 10 week blast a year of test 500 and deca 400? Was hoping add muscle then cruise the rest of the year on 100 mg test...

 

[malfeasance]

Understand

So do u ever blast or cycle?

@malfeasance : don’t think it’s even worth one 10 week blast a year of test 500 and deca 400? Was hoping add muscle then cruise the rest of the year on 100 mg test...

I can't make that decision for you. Only you know what you are willing to risk and for what.

Your question was whether there was a "healthy" way to cycle. The answer is no, not really.

Best health is a lighter weight, lean, and more endurance, and lower calories.

Steroids, extra body weight, and higher calories, especially with age, is not healthy.

We all know this. I am not sharing a secret with you.


There is a lot you can do to mitigate the risk, and monitoring things like blood pressure is a very good start. But there is a risk, and it is one we all have taken here.

The good news is a lot of the damage is reversible, assuming you don't harm your kidneys with prolonged high blood pressure.

But then you have to do things to reverse it, like not doing cycles and lowering your body weight and doing a lot of cardio and so on . . .

 

[malfeasance]

PROBABLY one blast a year is not going to kill you short term. I am not trying to overstate the risk. But we need to recognize that there is a risk, particularly in middle age and especially when noticing side effects like blood pressure that cannot be brought back to normal. This should (and apparently has) gotten your attention.

I would say that if you are going to do this, then go in with your eyes wide open, keep track of your blood work and blood pressure, and know when to call it quits.

Also, get on the cardio and get rid of the bodyfat you described. <--- You already know these two, right?

 

[malfeasance]

I do have a lot of young kids, run a biz so stress is there and unavoidable as well as sleep is hit or miss with a new born.

Kids are great! But sleep is important. A business can be stressful, but a lot of successful business owners find time to get up early in the morning and start their day with cardio exercise. You might find it benefits you in getting your day started off right. When I do early a.m. cardio, I feel like my day is starting differently. I am in a better mood and feel ready to tackle things, if that makes sense.

Of course, this requires not watching TV until late in the night. I find that when I am stressed I am tempted to watch more evening/night TV as a method if relaxing.

A newborn is a newborn, but otherwise little ones ought to be in bed by around 7:30 or so. They need a lot more sleep than adults.

 

[Theworm]

Kids are great! But sleep is important. A business can be stressful, but a lot of successful business owners find time to get up early in the morning and start their day with cardio exercise. You might find it benefits you in getting your day started off right. When I do early a.m. cardio, I feel like my day is starting differently. I am in a better mood and feel ready to tackle things, if that makes sense.

Of course, this requires not watching TV until late in the night. I find that when I am stressed I am tempted to watch more evening/night TV as a method if relaxing.

A newborn is a newborn, but otherwise little ones ought to be in bed by around 7:30 or so. They need a lot more sleep than adults.

Great advices on the above posts... agree with above. Yes longevity is my priority and def working on diet, trying to do more and more plant based and trying to get on my treadmill everyday...

 

[Megadick3000]

Great advices on the above posts... agree with above. Yes longevity is my priority and def working on diet, trying to do more and more plant based and trying to get on my treadmill everyday...

For me personally bro, active lifestyle. I dont just mean lifting weights. I mean getting hobbies that involve physical activity. For me thats things like surfing, swimming, freediving, hiking, etc. The beauty of it is that hobbies are fun to do, running on a treadmill is mind numbing, cultivate hobbies that involve a lot of physical activity and you will improve your health whilst enjoying life. Introduce your kids to these same hobbies, not only will it bond your relationship with your children by having shared interests and hobbies it will also instill healthy values into them. Dont raise another generation of inactive cellphone-zombies, the world has enough of these facebook addicts whose entire lives unfold inside a cellphone screen.

If you like biking then convince your kids to bike with you, if you hike then hike with your kids, kayak together, whatever it is if its an active lifestyle and you can share it with your children then your winning on all fronts in my opinion.

Active lifestyle can also help you unwind the stresses of work, blow off steam, etc. Get outside, get some fresh air and sunshine, and do it with your kids.