MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
AST/ALT Elevations
- Thread starter Taninject
- Start date
This one hit home because I have been dealing with liver more and more lately. LATELY... So I give you some input. First your doc is most likely a cunt. But at least yours sounds "Helpfully knowledgeable"...
80's is a bit on the high side if you are indeed a mid twenties male. But not the worry.
I works like this. AST 2:1 or 3:1 ratios (to alt) usually indicate pure alcohol abuse. Shortly if someone is drinking too much the AST will always be higher by 20-80 points. If that is the only biological crime ensuing.
In my general understanding so far, you wont usually see the ALT go higher than the AST except for particular specific reasons as well. Not sure what they are but I think ALT is the most specific to INCURRED Liver damage. So AST may indeed be the precursor to high ALT as well. Some things will straight up skew ALT up unilaterally, but they are unfortunately probably cancer and incurred damage and who knows. High numbers on BOTH ALT and AST persisting could be a bad sign. At least if you have alcohol abuse related higher AST, you know you just need to stop drinking and eating so much. TYLENOL IS A LIVER HAMMER...
At your age all should be able to be brought down. Keep in mind the liver has to process everything from Steroids (injectable or not), to medications, to alcohol, to food, to environmental toxins, to specific biologically harmful molecules of many sorts and varieties. FUNGUS AND BACTERIA EVEN can be VERY harmful. For example living in a SICK HOME with Stachybotrys chartarum (Fungal MOLD) can harm a liver and other organs as well.. Not sure which numbers stachy effects moreso, and I should be/// its a note to self there.
I recently had my first ever liver sound check and it reported most likely steasis (Fatty liver), but not ruling out hepatic or pre-cirrhotic conditions. I think my liver was a few inches too long and not normal but cited as mostly likely fatty related. At that time. my numbers were both around 160 and was the highest they ever had been.
All kinds of damaging combos come into play and keep in mind your doc don't care because he already KNOWS you are a liar so all he can do is go by the numbers. With that said my first awareness of my liver LFT's was when I was about 37 and going to get my hydrocodone refilled by a new don in a area I just moved to. My liver alt and ast was something like 50 and 55 and he called my wife and told her I needed to come back in ASAP like I was possibly dying. I called my internal back home with this news and I could hear him fall off his couch laughing uncontrollably..
Keep in mind liver LFTs are a slippery slope. Mine recently got as high and 250 ast and 200 alt. I was dinking one too many four lokos a day and had a bad kinda-rare liver reaction to Zoloft. DIDJA KNOW THAT EVEN a 50 mg dose of TRAZADONE can backfire on you and PERMANENTLY kill your liver unexpectedly! HAVE YOU Seen the reports of 35 yr old Brits that like a couple of pints a the end of the work day just being diagnosed out of the blue with terminal liver disease for no seemingly real reason. !! BUT KNow that hitting 200+ in LFT numbers is not far from the point that they shoot straight to 1000+ and indicate permanent liver damage. My numbers were a temporary drug (Zoloft) interaction going on and now only 2 months later both numbers are under 100 already. These can take time to come down TOO. Whereas NOTE cholesterol counts and things like triglycerides appear to me more dynamic in action..
Just remember to evaluate whatever you are putting in your body as it related to liver processing. That ALL combinations of shit to process combine differently in LFTs. (there also the less discussed ALP and GGT/ and GGT is another good marker for alcohol damage activity)/ ... I cant emphasize enough that WHAT YOU CONSUME CONCOMITANTILY WHILE DRINKING WILL AFFECT THE DAMAGE/STRESS RATES. I.E. some combinations of substance and molecules can kill you quick. LISTEN TO YOUR BODY. Your liver will start to hurt a bit once you get up around 100 on ALT/AST due to the swelling from sugar, fat, and toxins. IT WILL LET YOU KNOW SO CHECK YOURSELF. Once you go "cirrhotic", and from FAT, alcohol, pharma, whatever, = you are done and your Chevy is not in PERMANENT LIMP MODE till you cash out...
Your numbers will come back down once you straighten up whatever you are eating, taking, drinking, PINNING, consuming, ETC, that is causing it... /and once you wind up with SIMILAR NUMBERS again on both ALT and AST, you are now aligned and the offender possibly mitigated and on the way to continuing to come down in identical fashion. 50-60 are good numbers for alt/ast for an adult male on any day...
Your doc is sending you for that Ultrasound simply because 80 is a bit high for LFTs in mid twenties so DEF be concerned if you are not doing something to cause it. Oral steroids and even injectables could easily cause those numbers..
Fatty liver or alcohol inflammation are both good ways of saying you need to back off a bit. AND THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT FASTING IS A ROCK SOLID WAY TO GET YOUR LIVER BACK IN SHAPE..!!! TRUTH... (we are assuming you understand that steroid are the fist thing that has to go.. At least for a while)... A 3 day fast will totally change your numbers. A 10 day plus fast will DRAIN YOUR LIVER DRY FROM ANY TOXINS in most cases and makes for a great reset BELIEVE IT. No your doc is not smart enough to know or tell you this. He is told how to think, eat, breathe, shit, and even fuck his ho-ass RN's that he is promising he will divorce his wife for "any day now".. LOL
Deezznutzz
Member
1200mg nac a day lowers mine into the green.Tudca helps too. I know the NAC Works cuz I have about 25 Labs that proves it lowers mine. I'm trying a new thing that I've read about everyone swears about artichoke extract off Amazon. I have added it to my supplements but I haven't had any blood test yet. They say the artichoke extract reverses fatty liver
Thanks for all this! I do take anabolics and on a 500 mg total load at the moment. Don’t drink and do have a bit of a family history of elevated liver enzymes so we shall see. Go in on Thursday to get the ultrasound. Might consider the NAC for the time. A fast would def be beneficial but on a push rn so will probs the next health phase. I’m just glad I check my shit rn because I know tons of dudes that have no idea what’s doing on inside.
Graikas
Banned
I have alt 4 above ref ast 3times above ref doesnt help any tudca,sylimarin,liv,nac,milkthistle ...
What do you mean "4 above and 3times"...??? Are you saying your numbers are both over 200 on the reg?
Graikas
Banned
Jin23
Member
Those are some concerning numbers. The AST to ALT ratio I mean. Whatever you are on it would be wise to quit it, sooner then later, and by that I mean immediately.
Jin23
Member
What's your fasting insulin and how are your triglycerides looking?
I you are for real then read on. Otherwise nice joke..
Well obviously you are outside the states. But what is going on with that E2?? Are you obese more so that the "normal fat person".. if so you could be full blown fatty liver already and real close to cirrhosis.
You profile says you are 37years old. When I was that old and had just run my first big test cycles I was only at the top of the ranges. That ALT being higher than AST is crazy odd too. Thats indicative of some sort of injury, perhaps drug or disease related, and you need to see a doc ASAP if you have not. If the numbers were reversed I would just tell you to lay off the booze and cut out the steroids for a long while. But what you got there is a different and concerning animal indeed. You should be heading over to your docs office and getting scheduled for an abdominal ultrasound ASAP if you have not done that yet...
So then - Did a doc pull these labs or did you get them independently yourself.?? Because if a doc pulled them you probably already have the ultrasound report. Unless he is completely incompetent. I would imagine he has tested you for things like Hep C, and other liver toxic blood visible infections and illness???
I do also have the suspicion that when ALT is up BUT driven by AST factors like juice and/or alcohol, you have a more reversible situation many times. Meaning the AST being high and higher than the ALT has always reversed quickly for me in my experience. I simply don't have any experience with that one. But I can tell you this. When my doc sees my numbers high and AST being the rock star, he just says to me - stop drinking so much dumbass. I have a feeling he would be looking for a liver area to biopsy if I had your numbers...
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Didn’t get fasted unfortunately but getting a glucometer. Did have a meal about 45 mins prior and the glucose on the test was 109.
Triglycerides are in range for most part, like total cholesterol is very good. Hdl is low at 18 then my ldl is close to high end of normal.
Jin23
Member
For most healthy people, measuring bg is kinda pointless. By the time your bg is elevated, you've had insulin resistance and fat accumulation in the liver for a long time. Fasting insulin levels are a much better marker for a proactive approach. You want them around 3.5 mU/l.
Graikas
Banned
I have hepatitis B
CooSee
Member
@OP, hopefully you're aware of this (I didn't see it in the comments up above so far), but both AST and ALT will almost always be above reference range for anyone who trains hard. Training your muscles hard and getting sore releases the same chemicals. So if you think you're lifting hard and you have perfectly happy AST and ALT, I would suggest you're training like a pansy. You shouldn't really be >100 though. 30-50 ast and 50-70 alt are what mine have averaged over the last 10 years of hard training and doing labs.
If you are or have been doing ANY orals, that will immediately skew you higher due to actual liver inflammation. Just say no to heavy oral use or basically any use aside from 4 weeks pre contest. Pre workout sublingual, 1/4 dose, only a couple times a week is definitely recommended as max off season usage by any safe use pro.
Now, are you aware of GGT? If your ast and alt are slightly elevated (because you don't train like a pansy), then make sure you test your GGT. Mine has averaged 12 (range is 0-55 or so in the US) over the last many years while ast and alt are almost always slightly elevated. If your GGT is nice and low, you probably need to just go along with your doc to satisfy him/her, but don't actually worry.
And lastly, hopefully you're not drinking alcohol or taking meds and expecting to become any kind of bodybuilder
If you are or have been doing ANY orals, that will immediately skew you higher due to actual liver inflammation. Just say no to heavy oral use or basically any use aside from 4 weeks pre contest. Pre workout sublingual, 1/4 dose, only a couple times a week is definitely recommended as max off season usage by any safe use pro.
Now, are you aware of GGT? If your ast and alt are slightly elevated (because you don't train like a pansy), then make sure you test your GGT. Mine has averaged 12 (range is 0-55 or so in the US) over the last many years while ast and alt are almost always slightly elevated. If your GGT is nice and low, you probably need to just go along with your doc to satisfy him/her, but don't actually worry.
And lastly, hopefully you're not drinking alcohol or taking meds and expecting to become any kind of bodybuilder
