5/3/1 or juggernaut method

[TheIncomparableMrHarrow]

35 year old male and have for the most of my life have always done the traditional bodybuilding routine or bro split up until about two years ago. I got into a powerlifting style of training and have loved it ever since. I have been consistently using the 5/3/1 powerlifting method ever since but am starting to wonder if I am missing out on a possible better program with the juggernaut method especially since it is considered to be a more "scientific method or version of 5/3/1". Wondering about other forum members experiences using them. What were your takeaways of the given programs?

 

[Perrin Aybara]

Never run juggernaut, but didn't get much out of 5/3/1. A little on deadlift, but zero on squat or bench.

 

[Eman]

I've been a followed of the Juggernaut Method for a while now, highly recommend.

 

[TheIncomparableMrHarrow]

I really enjoyed 5/3/1. All of my lifts went up, but I guess it is pretty dependant on your level. If you are at an elite point in powerlifting, I don't think there will be much benefit. Juggernaut has definitely got my attention.

 

[theprodgicalson]

I really enjoyed 5/3/1. All of my lifts went up, but I guess it is pretty dependant on your level. If you are at an elite point in powerlifting, I don't think there will be much benefit. Juggernaut has definitely got my attention.

My personally opinion. If you're still making gains from 5/3/1 there is absolutely no reason to switch. Run it until you don't make any progress for a couple cycles.

And while we are on the subject if juggernaut, @Eman have you seen their new AI coaching platform? I'm heavily thinking of signing up for it

 

[Eman]

My personally opinion. If you're still making gains from 5/3/1 there is absolutely no reason to switch. Run it until you don't make any progress for a couple cycles.

And while we are on the subject if juggernaut, @Eman have you seen their new AI coaching platform? I'm heavily thinking of signing up for it

Yes! It's only $27 a month right now... I bet the price will go up at some point.

I am a powerbuilding club suscriber and I really like it. I was going to switch over to powerlifting club after new year but I'm torn now. They let you cancel at any time so you could potentially just buy 4 weeks of programming for $27... Can't beat that.

I think that includes access to the private Facebook page where you can ask questions and get critique on form/technique.

 

[TheIncomparableMrHarrow]

Definitely will be checking it out.

 

[TheIncomparableMrHarrow]

I

My personally opinion. If you're still making gains from 5/3/1 there is absolutely no reason to switch. Run it until you don't make any progress for a couple cycles.

And while we are on the subject if juggernaut, @Eman have you seen their new AI coaching platform? I'm heavily thinking of signing up for it

I have made gains on 5/3/1 but I also had to adjust my training maxes twice now over the course of the two years that I have been running it. Just trying to maximize whatever I can to get the consistent desired results and keeping my options open.

 

[theprodgicalson]

Yes! It's only $27 a month right now... I bet the price will go up at some point.

I am a powerbuilding club suscriber and I really like it. I was going to switch over to powerlifting club after new year but I'm torn now. They let you cancel at any time so you could potentially just buy 4 weeks of programming for $27... Can't beat that.

I think that includes access to the private Facebook page where you can ask questions and get critique on form/technique.

Awesome to hear. I just joined the AI coaching the day I had asked you. This week will be my first week. How many days do they have you lifting? They recommended I bump it from 4 to 5 next training cycle to spread out the work load.

I'm excited to see where it takes me. Next doing a meet until possibly late spring. It had me set for 6 months of training before peaking/testing. I was already considering doing it with Garrett Blevins, but I've always like the juggernaut content.

 

[theprodgicalson]

I

I have made gains on 5/3/1 but I also had to adjust my training maxes twice now over the course of the two years that I have been running it. Just trying to maximize whatever I can to get the consistent desired results and keeping my options open.

When you say you've had to adjust training maxes, you mean adjust them up to heavier weight?

 

[SinisterDog]

Goina throw my vote in for 5/3/1. Been following it for over a year and have made great gains on every lift. I change up the focus every few cycles to keep things progressing. I just finished a 9 week peak strength focus. Now I’ve changed the accessories to increase volume on the main lifts and picked specific supplemental work to directly aid the main lift. Traditionally 5/3/1 you have a TM you base your percentages off and you have a working weight . Every cycle you add weight to the working weight not the TM. Eventually when your working weight surpasses your training max you increase the TM and start again. I basically never change the TM and Instead just keep adding weight every cycle to my working weight.
I have looked into juggernaut and have watched Chad wesley smiths videos on YouTube but I just find you can’t bet 5/3/1 for simplicity. But it takes more self regulation and knowledge in how to program yourself.

 

[Eman]

Awesome to hear. I just joined the AI coaching the day I had asked you. This week will be my first week. How many days do they have you lifting? They recommended I bump it from 4 to 5 next training cycle to spread out the work load.

I'm excited to see where it takes me. Next doing a meet until possibly late spring. It had me set for 6 months of training before peaking/testing. I was already considering doing it with Garrett Blevins, but I've always like the juggernaut content.

It's 6 days per week and then 5 on the deload weeks. I wish I could opt for a 5 day version to run because I really like the programming setup but the 6 days per week gets tough... I usually take an extra day off during the deloads actually.

I am interested to see what you think of it. I was going to try the powerlifting club but now I'm leaning towards the AI programming... I was concerned the powerlifting club would be a lot of circuits for the accessory work, and I'm not a fan of circuits. Keep me updated on what you think of it!

 

[theprodgicalson]

It's 6 days per week and then 5 on the deload weeks. I wish I could opt for a 5 day version to run because I really like the programming setup but the 6 days per week gets tough... I usually take an extra day off during the deloads actually.

I am interested to see what you think of it. I was going to try the powerlifting club but now I'm leaning towards the AI programming... I was concerned the powerlifting club would be a lot of circuits for the accessory work, and I'm not a fan of circuits. Keep me updated on what you think of it!

I haven't lifted more than 4 days a week in a few years. But I was already debating moving to 5 days before I even joined to spread out the volume. Read something by Brandon Senn about something similar and CWS also I believe, so there is definitrly merit to it. And it makes since especially on lower body days.

Can I ask why you're not a fan of circuits? I personally like them for the conditioning asoect. Although the down side is usually the last lift in the circuit doesn't get the same intensity as the first.

 

[Eman]

Can I ask why you're not a fan of circuits? I personally like them for the conditioning asoect. Although the down side is usually the last lift in the circuit doesn't get the same intensity as the first.

I think they do have merit as a tool for conditioning but I think juggernaut method in particular hits conditioning in it's high volume waves by default.

I personally think supersets are sufficient.. a four exercise circuit seems like overkill to me. They are often a pain to set up at my gym too...

In fairness, they are also something I don't really have a lot of experience with so maybe I need to give them an honest try. They aren't something that I've ever willingly programmed so when I see it being written into the program my knee jerk reaction is to resist I guess.

Juggernaut really works the volume in... I think a lot of guys seem to think it's too much and they think they're getting weaker. Then they quit, and a few weeks later they hit a bunch of huge PR's. I've heard of it happening several times. The programming really builds toward a climax and the deloads become uber important.

 

[TheIncomparableMrHarrow]

When you say you've had to adjust training maxes, you mean adjust them up to heavier weight?

No, I have had to lower the training maxes twice because I could not hit the required reps. One time for the main lifts and another time during the accessory work utilized by the simplest strength template(SST). I think I am going to give the juggernaut method 2.0 a run and if I don’t like it I can always go back to my bread and butter which is the 5/3/1. What do I have to lose? At the very least it is a different type of stimulus to encourage growth.

 

[Eman]

No, I have had to lower the training maxes twice because I could not hit the required reps. One time for the main lifts and another time during the accessory work utilized by the simplest strength template(SST). I think I am going to give the juggernaut method 2.0 a run and if I don’t like it I can always go back to my bread and butter which is the 5/3/1. What do I have to lose? At the very least it is a different type of stimulus to encourage growth.

Have you read the books by Jim or just used a calculator?

 

[Ironlord]

Soooo many options out there : the Texas method, DC, destroy the opposition by Jamie Lewis, cube.... They all work. Just pick one and run it. You'll be surprised at your progress. And each one will make you better at something...

 

[TheIncomparableMrHarrow]

Yes. I have 5/3/1 2nd edition, 5/3/1 beyond, 5/3/1 powerlifting, and 5/3/1 forever. Don’t know if he has anything newer out. Like I said earlier I like the program and enjoy it. I have made gains and jumps in weight just wondering about juggernaut and if I am missing out on anything. On powerlifting to win it is described as a more scientific version of 5/3/1 and chad Wesley smith has stated that he has been hugely inspired by Wendler and his 5/3/1 program.

 

[TheIncomparableMrHarrow]

I am also concerned about the frequency of the deloads too. In 5/3/1 you would deload every six weeks and in the juggernaut method you would deload every three. Wendler even started to originally program the deload every 3 weeks but after thinking about it and tweaking some aspects of the program he later stated that every three weeks was too frequent and changed it to every 6.

 

[Eman]

I am also concerned about the frequency of the deloads too. In 5/3/1 you would deload every six weeks and in the juggernaut method you would deload every three. Wendler even started to originally program the deload every 3 weeks but after thinking about it and tweaking some aspects of the program he later stated that every three weeks was too frequent and changed it to every 6.

Juggernaut deloads every 4th week but also has more volume.

You also don't need to take the deloads that often, it depends on your experience level. If you're at a higher level, you'll need more... If you aren't working with heavier weight, you'll need to deload less.