4 Reasons Putin Is Already Losing in Ukraine

cvictorg

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http://news.yahoo.com/4-reasons-putin-already-losing-ukraine-211452971.html?vp=1

1) The Kremlin’s own pollster released a survey on Monday that showed 73% of Russians reject it. In phrasing its question to 1600 respondents across the country, the state-funded sociologists at WCIOM were clearly trying to get as much support for the intervention as possible: “Should Russia react to the overthrow of the legally elected authorities in Ukraine?” they asked. Only 15% said yes – hardly a national consensus.

2) When markets opened on Monday morning, investors got their first chance to react to the Russian intervention in Ukraine over the weekend, and as a result, the key Russian stock indexes tanked by more than 10%. That amounts to almost $60 billion in stock value wiped out in the course of a day, more than Russia spent preparing for last month’s Winter Olympic Games in Sochi. The state-controlled natural gas monopoly Gazprom, which accounts for roughly a quarter of Russian tax revenues, lost $15 billion in market value in one day – incidentally the same amount of money Russia promised to the teetering regime in Ukraine in December and then revoked in January as the revolution took hold.

The value of the Russian currency meanwhile dropped against the dollar to its lowest point on record, and the Russian central bank spent $10 billion on the foreign exchange markets trying to prop it up. “This has to fundamentally change the way investors and ratings agencies view Russia,” said Timothy Ash, head of emerging market research at Standard Bank. At a time when Russia’s economic growth was already stagnating, “This latest military adventure will increase capital flight, weaken Russian asset prices, slow investment and economic activity and growth. Western financial sanctions on Russia will hurt further,” Ash told the Wall Street Journal.

3) The oil-rich state of Kazakhstan, the most important member of every regional alliance Russia has going in the former Soviet space, put out a damning statement on Monday, marking the first time its leaders have ever turned against Russia on such a major strategic issue: “Kazakhstan expresses deep concern over the developments in Ukraine,” the Foreign Ministry said. “Kazakhstan calls on all sides to stop the use of force in the resolution of this situation.”

What likely worries Russia’s neighbors most is the statement the Kremlin made on March 2, after Putin spoke on the phone with U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-moon. “Vladimir Putin noted that in case of any escalation of violence against the Russian-speaking population of the eastern regions of Ukraine and Crimea, Russia would not be able to stay away and would resort to whatever measures are necessary in compliance with international law.” This sets a horrifying precedent for all of Russia’s neighbors.

Every single state in the former Soviet Union, from Central Asia to the Baltics, has a large Russian-speaking population, and this statement means that Russia reserves the right to invade when it feels that population is threatened. The natural reaction of any Russian ally in the region would be to seek security guarantees against becoming the next Ukraine. For countries in Eastern Europe and the Caucasus, including Armenia, a stanch Russian ally, that would likely stir desires for a closer alliance with NATO and the European Union. For the countries of Central Asia, Russia’s traditional stomping ground on the geopolitical map of the world, that would mean strengthening ties with nearby China, including military ones.

China, which has long been Russia’s silent partner on all issues of global security from Syria to Iran, has also issued cautious statements regarding Russia’s actions in Ukraine. “It is China’s long-standing position not to interfere in others’ internal affairs,” the Foreign Ministry reportedly said in a statement on Sunday. “We respect the independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine.”

So in the course of one weekend, Putin has spooked all of the countries he wanted to include in his grand Eurasian Union, the bloc of nations he hoped would make Russia a regional power again. The only gung-ho participants in that alliance so far have been Kazakhstan (see above) and Belarus, which is known as Europe’s last dictatorship. Its leader, Alexander Lukashenko, has so far remained silent on the Russian intervention in Ukraine. But last week, Belarus recognized the legitimacy of the new revolutionary government in Kiev, marking a major break from Russia, which has condemned Ukraine’s new leaders as extremists and radicals. The Belarusian ambassador in Kiev even congratulated Ukraine’s new Foreign Minister on taking office and said he looks forward to working with him.

As for the impoverished nation of Armenia, a late-comer to Russia’s fledgling Eurasian alliance, it has also recognized the new government in Kiev while stopping short of any official condemnation of Putin’s intervention in Ukraine so far. But on Saturday, prominent politicians led an anti-Putin demonstration in the Armenia capital. “We are not against Russia,” said the country’s former Minister of National Security David Shakhnazaryan. “We are against the imperial policies of Putin and the Kremlin.”

4) In June, Putin was planning to welcome the leaders of the G8, a club of western powers (plus Japan), in the Russian resort city of Sochi. But on Sunday, all of them announced they had halted their preparations for attending the summit in protest at Russia’s intervention in Ukraine. So much for Putin’s hard-fought seat at the table with the leaders of the western world.

In recent years, one of Russia’s greatest points of contention with the West has been over NATO’s plans to build of a missile shield in Europe. Russia has seen this as a major threat to its security, as the shield could wipe out Russia’s ability to launch nuclear missiles at the West. The long-standing nuclear deterrent that has protected Russia from Western attacks for generations – the Cold War doctrine of mutually assured destruction, or MAD – could thus be negated, Russia’s generals have warned. But after Russia decided to unilaterally invade its neighbor to the west this weekend, any remaining resistance to the missile shield project would be pushed aside by the renewed security concerns of various NATO members, primarily those in Eastern Europe and the Baltics. Whatever hopes Russia had of forestalling the construction of the missile shield through diplomacy are now most likely lost.

No less worrying for Putin would be the economic sanctions the West is preparing in answer to Russia’s intervention in Ukraine. Depending on their intensity, those could cut off the ability of Russian companies and businessmen in getting western loans and trading with most of the world’s largest economies. Putin’s allies could also find it a lot more difficult to send their children to study in the West or to keep their assets in Western banks, as they now almost universally do. All of that raises the risk for Putin of a split in his inner circle and, potentially, even of a palace coup. There is hardly anything more important to Russia’s political elite than the security of their foreign assets, certainly not their loyalty to a leader who seems willing to put all of that at risk.

And what about the upside for Putin? There doesn’t seem to be much of it, at least not compared to the damage he stands to inflict on Russia and himself. But he does look set to accomplish a few things. For one, he demonstrates to the world that his red lines, unlike those of the White House, cannot be crossed.

If Ukraine’s revolutionary government moves ahead with their planned integration into the E.U. and possibly NATO, the military alliance that Russia sees as its main strategic threat would move right up to Russia’s western borders and, in Crimea, it would surround the Russian Black Sea fleet. That is a major red line for Putin and his generals.

By sending troops into Crimea and, potentially, into eastern Ukraine, Russia could secure a buffer around Russia’s strategic naval fleet and at its western border. For the military brass in Moscow, those are vital priorities, and their achievement is worth a great deal of sacrifice. Over the weekend, Putin’s actions showed that he is listening carefully to his generals. At the same time, he seems to be ignoring the outrage coming from pretty much everyone else.
 
I in fact have heard from reputable sources that>>>>>>>DRUM ROLL>>>>>>>>

President Obama actually tricked Putan into invading the Ukraine. Yes, thats right. Another great win for our guy. Now Obama and John Carry have exclusive rights to say "nanni nanni boo boo somebody smells like shu shu" and stick out their tounges out at Putan..... Putan cant do shit about it. He's got to take it. We win again..........I pledge allegiance to Obama.
 
I in fact have heard from reputable sources that>>>>>>>DRUM ROLL>>>>>>>>

President Obama actually tricked Putan into invading the Ukraine. Yes, thats right. Another great win for our guy. Now Obama and John Carry have exclusive rights to say "nanni nanni boo boo somebody smells like shu shu" and stick out their tounges out at Putan..... Putan cant do shit about it. He's got to take it. We win again..........I pledge allegiance to Obama.

President Obama has BEEN trying to start WW III, in fact, I have no doubt it's going to happen before the end of his second term, then he can suck HLS's dick to get another ILLEGAL bypass to extend himself even more.
 
Every bodies getting involved for one reason or the other:

Ukraine: Israeli Special Forces Unit under Neo-Nazi Command Involved in Maidan Riots
By Prof Michel Chossudovsky

Neo-Nazis Honoring Stepan Bandera
The JTA article can be consulted at In Kiev, an Israeli army vet led a street-fighting unit | Jewish Telegraphic Agency
http://www.jta.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Delta-in-Kiev-earlier-this-month.-Courtesy-photo.jpegImage: Neo-Nazi Militia
Under the title “In Kiev, an Israeli army vet led a street-fighting unit”, the Jewish News Agency JTA confirms that soldiers from the IDF were involved in the EuroMaidan protest movement under the direct command of the Neo-Nazi Svoboda Party. The Svoboda Party follows in the footsteps of World War II Nazi collaborator Stepan Bandera.
The leader of the “Blue Helmets of Maidan” is Delta “the nom de guerre of the commander of a Jewish-led militia force that participated in the Ukrainian revolution”. Delta is a Veteran of the notorious Givati infantry brigade, which was involved in numerous operations directed against Gaza including Operation Cast Lead in 2008-2009.
The Givati brigade was responsible for the massacres in the Tel el-Hawa neighborhood of Gaza. Delta, the leader of the EuroMaidan IDF unit acknowledges that he acquired his urban combat skills in the Shu’alei Shimshon reconnaissance battalion of the Givati brigade.

Delta, the nom de guerre of the Jewish commander of a Ukrainian street-fighting unit, is pictured in Kiev earlier this month. (Courtesy of ‘Delta’)
According to the JTA report, Delta was in command of a force of 40 men and women including several former IDF veterans. In the EuroMaidan, Delta was routinely applying his skills of urban warfare which he had used against the Palestinians in Gaza.
The Maidan “Street fighting unit” under Delta’s command was involved in confronting government forces. It is unclear from the reports whether the EuroMaidan combat unit was in liaison with IDF command headquarters in Israel:
The Blue Helmets comprise 35 men and women who are not Jewish, and who are led by five ex-IDF soldiers, says Delta, an Orthodox Jew in his late 30s
Delta, who immigrated to Israel in the 1990s, moved back to Ukraine several years ago … He says he joined the protest movement as a volunteer on Nov. 30, after witnessing violence by government forces against student protesters.
“I saw unarmed civilians with no military background being ground by a well-oiled military machine, and it made my blood boil,” Delta told JTA in Hebrew laced with military jargon. “I joined them then and there, and I started fighting back the way I learned how, through urban warfare maneuvers. People followed, and I found myself heading a platoon of young men. Kids, really.”
The other ex-IDF infantrymen joined the Blue Helmets later after hearing it was led by a fellow vet, Delta said.
In a bitter irony, Delta, the commander of the IDF militia unit was taking his orders directly from the Neo-Nazi Party Svoboda:
As platoon leader, Delta says he takes orders from activists connected to Svoboda, an ultra-nationalist [Neo-Nazi] party that has been frequently accused of anti-Semitism and whose members have been said to have had key positions in organizing the opposition protests.
“I don’t belong [to Svoboda], but I take orders from their team. They know I’m Israeli, Jewish and an ex-IDF soldier. They call me ‘brother,’” he said. “What they’re saying about Svoboda is exaggerated, I know this for a fact. I don’t like them because they’re inconsistent, not because of [any] anti-Semitism issue.”
Neither the Tel Aviv government nor the Israeli media have expressed concern regarding the fact that the EuroMaidan protests were led by Neo-Nazis.
With the formation of a new government composed of NeoNazis, the Jewish community in Kiev is threatened. This community is described as “one of the most vibrant Jewish communities in the world, with dozens of active Jewish organizations and institutions”. A significant part of this community is made up of family members of holocaust survivors. “Three million Ukrainians were murdered by the Nazis during their occupation of Ukraine, including 900,000 Jews.” (indybay.org, January 29, 2014).
“It’s bullshit. I never saw any expression of anti-Semitism during the protests”
In a bitter twist, the Blue Helmet IDF unit in the EuroMaidan has been the object of praise by the Israeli media. According to Ariel Cohen of the Washington based Heritage Foundation: “The commanding position of Svoboda in the revolution is no secret”. The participation of Israeli soldiers under Neo-Nazi Svoboda command does not seem to be an object of concern:
On Wednesday, Russian State Duma Chairman Sergey Naryshkin said Moscow was concerned about anti-Semitic declarations by radical groups in Ukraine.But Delta says the Kremlin is using the anti-Semitism card falsely to delegitimize the Ukrainian revolution, which is distancing Ukraine from Russia’s sphere of influence.
“It’s bullshit. I never saw any expression of anti-Semitism during the protests, and the claims to the contrary were part of the reason I joined the movement. We’re trying to show that Jews care,” he said.
See Svoboda and Right Sector militants honoring Stepan Bandera(image below)
Bandera was a Nazi collaborator involved in the Third Reich’s Einsatzgruppen (Task Groups or Deployment Groups) . These “task forces” were paramilitary death squads deployed throughout the Ukraine.
 
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It's difficult to make any reasonable argument that "Ukraine is winning" anything

Their country has been destroyed, large parts of it are currently occupied. Most of which are very likely to be lost indefinitely.

And it's difficult to imagine Ukraine having any meaningful independence going foreward no matter how this turns out. They are now in dire debt to the most corrupt politicians in the world to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars.

If they thought paying the crackhead son of the vice president millions of dollars for a cushy no show job before was expensive, just wait till all this is over.

I don't know who's "winning" this travesty.
But Ukrain has definitely lost. Big time

It's almost like overthrowing the ukranian government twice in 10 years and starting a civil war in the Donbass wasn't such a good idea.
Yes @Big_paul Joe Biden did that my friend.
 
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It's difficult to make any reasonable argument that "Ukraine is winning" anything

Their country has been destroyed, large parts of it are currently occupied. Most of which are very likely to be lost indefinitely.

And it's difficult to imagine Ukraine having any meaningful independence going foreward no matter how this turns out. They are now in dire debt to the most corrupt politicians in the world to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars.

If they thought paying the crackhead son of the vice president millions of dollars for a cushy no show job before was expensive, just wait till all this is over.

I don't know who's "winning" this travesty.
But Ukrain has definitely lost. Big time

It's almost like overthrowing the ukranian government twice in 10 years and starting a civil war in the Donbass wasn't such a good idea.
Yes @Big_paul Joe Biden did that my friend.
how'd you stumble upon this 8 year old thread?
 
It's difficult to make any reasonable argument that "Ukraine is winning" anything
I think the end result is evident. Best case scenario Ukraine will be smaller and agree to some sort of neutrality. They will agree to forget about the European union, and will be a satellite state to a nation that will be separated from the free world for decades and one that has the credibility and respect that North Korea enjoys.
 
I think the end result is evident. Best case scenario Ukraine will be smaller and agree to some sort of neutrality. They will agree to forget about the European union, and will be a satellite state to a nation that will be separated from the free world for decades and one that has the credibility and respect that North Korea enjoys.

The real tragedy is for the Ukrainian people.

They thought they were fighting for freedom and independence, led to war by corrupt, greedy politicians of a wealthy nation that doesn't care about them in the least.

Your prediction seems likely in the short term. And what that means for the Ukrainian people, is losing a chunk of their country to Russia, who can stay indefinitely in the east and south because the local ethnic Russian people living there will support them.

The west of Ukraine will get it's face stuffed in the mud with a boot on it's neck while people like Joe Bidens crackhead son pick their pockets clean and thier industry and economy is basically nationalized by American corporate interests and world banks. They'll call it some bullshit like "expanding the borders of freedom" or the like. So much for freedom and independence. It will surely ring hollow for the Ukrainian people.

"Separated from the free world" is just a waiting game. Unlike America, and most of Europe, Russia can support and sustain itself. With the "free world" under control of a corrupt corporate ogliarchy of the billionaire donor class of the democrat party it becomes less "free" every day.

But, I think not.
It's difficult to isolate anybody that doesn't choose to accept it these days. And our current leadership has more or less stabbed every Ally we've ever had in the back and stole from them time and time again.

You don't pay the vice president's crackhead son millions of dollars for a cushy no show job for nothing. When they figure out they got fucked on that deal, that the millions of dollars in bribes they paid will be for nothing, and they will soon figure it out, things will go from bad to worse. The neo Nazi militia groups Joe Biden supported to overthrow the ukranian government in 2014 will turn on US and become the next Hezbollah or Al Qaeda.
Our next "war in terror" is being written now.

It's just a matter of time before the world gets together and says enough is enough.

Unless the American people can say enough is enough first and put the democrat party in it's place : the ash heap of history.
 
It doesn't seem logical that Joe Bidens decision to instigate and fight a proxy war against Russia in Ukraine is going to lead to the "isolation of Russia" if you think about it @Big_paul

Nearly a quarter to a third of the worlds grain is grown in Eastern Ukraine (now occupied by Russia) and in Russia itself.

Not to mention the gas, oil, steel and minerals produced in Russia.

Other countries are not going to starve and go without heat with ships full of Russian grain and tankers full of Russian oil are a phone call way just because Joe Biden has decided to try to punish the current Boogeyman of the month with sanctions while he funds a violent ongoing conflict in order to secure ukranian resources for western development.

I just don't see that happening.

The US government is not going to be able to play the galactic empire forever. The democrat party's days are numbered. As soon as they're gone, and their propoganda goes with them, people will be calling for peace and leadership who can deliver it will be the ones chosen by the people.

People are only going to buy the bullshit for so long before they ask who the real danger to our freedom is. The little brown man with no shoes riding around camels in the desert? The starving people in the ghettos of Palestine? The president of an Eastern European country plagued with it's own problems?

Or the bastard in the Whitehouse eroding American freedoms every day?
 
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Ukraine is going to lead to the "isolation of Russia
Unfortunately that will be the outcome. If people in Russia could be honest and speak freely without the risk of going to prison for 15 yrs, they wouldn't support the war.

The entire matter sickens me.
 
Unfortunately that will be the outcome. If people in Russia could be honest and speak freely without the risk of going to prison for 15 yrs, they wouldn't support the war.

The entire matter sickens me.

It sickens me too brother.

We can't do anything about the actions of Putin. But, Imagine if instead of deliberately provoking and funding a proxy war against Russia that could get everyone killed, our leadership had pledged to back Zelensky militarily against the Nazi factions who were threatening to kill him if he made peace with Russia as he campaigned on doing?

Let's just hope that the Ukrainian people hold their leadership accountable. That we as American people hold our own leadership accountable. And that the Russian people hold their leadership accountable.

As far as I'm concerned, the fact that our government has us in a situation where nuclear war is very possible. And that conventional war has destroyed a country they've been fleecing for years.... means that they fucked up...big time. Joe Biden fucked this up. He and his administration agitated this at every turn while picking the pockets of the ukranian people.

Let's just hope for a reckoning of all parties responsible for the human suffering they've caused for their own selfish reasons.

*Edit* @Big_paul did you know that the Ukrainian government since the orange revolution / US state department coup of 2003 Ukraine ogliarchs (we put into power) spent more money lobbying democrat politicians in Washington DC than any other country on earth in a similar time period?

Just saying

Screenshot_20220325-091600~2.png
 
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We can't do anything about the actions of Putin. But, Imagine if instead of deliberately provoking and funding a proxy war against Russia that could get everyone killed, our leadership had pledged to back Zelensky militarily against the Nazi factions who were threatening to kill him if he made peace with Russia as he campaigned on doing?
My friend at what point in human history has appeasement worked as a viable strategy?

I'm not trying to gloss over the danger that we face.
 
My friend at what point in human history has appeasement worked as a viable strategy?

I'm not trying to gloss over the danger that we face.

Appeasement of who?

Our leadership wanted this war. They had to have wanted it because they could have prevented it easily with simple low cost diplomacy. They chose otherwise and instead agitated it.

They got what they wanted. Billions upon billions of dollars in weapon sales and opportunities to launder themselves money for years to come. Plenty of people willing to pay a half million dollars for crappy artwork drawn up by the crackhead son of the US president. Executive board positions in newly formed American corporations in Ukraine on the horizon will be ripe for degenerate offspring of powerful western leaders....

Everyone should be happy by now. Enough killing already

I'm talking about negotiating for peace instead of funding a war. They've already got what they wanted. Ukraine will never be independent now. It owes our politicians way too much money.

It'll never be non corrupt or free. But hey, Joe Biden made alot of powerful people alot of money at the expense of the ukranian people right?

Enough already.
 
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Peace talks are of least interest to everyone, it is interesting to continue military operations. This is beneficial in terms of money and power. There is a maximum use of the situation. Destroy Russia as much as possible and weaken Europe in one. Since all restrictions lead to collapse.
 
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