Sex Hormone Binding Globulin [SHBG]

[idmd]

James....as I said I have no dog in this fight. Dr. S asked for a citation and you provided some guys course syllabus which itself has no references. This doesn't "cut the mustard" by ANYONE'S standards....ever....anywhere....under ANY circumstances. That is NOT a citation.

As to the actual information....I don't really care or know. You may be correct....but your "evidence" does NOT substantiate your claim.

 

[idmd]

Yes, it does.

Ha! Alright if you can't play by the rules then just make them up. Ok...you're correct....course syllabi are now equal to peer-reviewed research. Unfortunately the vast majority of people lecturing in medical schools are either researchers "paying their dues" and are forced to teach in their general area of research but it's never specifically on what they research and all PhD's inherently hate medical students. Alternatively, they are clinicians who have some small interest in education - either way these courses cover the basics and all too often not a whole lot of thought goes into them beyond what is already found in the text book (which 99% is completely outdated by the time it's published).

 

[Dr JIM]

The 6th paragraph should read E-2 becomes more important when TT levels fall, because in the absence of E-2 binding specific HTPA receptors, LH secretion increases as does gonadal TT production.

Thereafter an increasing TT level hampers further LH secretion, generating a "positive/negative feedback loop"

 

[Dr JIM]

Hey IDSTER the last time I queried James for "evidence" to support the garbage he spews he cited a blog quote, which of course was NOT referenced, LOL.

Be patient with James though mate his theories are always in a "state of flux" so one really NEVER knows what is concocted (98% IME) versus quoted from some other misguided non-peer reviewed source (2%)


Jim

 

[James23]

idmd,

You're making the same logical mistake. I'm not proving anything. The assertion was known as fact, and does not need a reference any more than the phrase "males typically have pensies" needs a study to support it. I was simply quoting the doctor to give lxm an idea of E2s role and the magnitude of difference between the role of T and E on LH expression.

Dr. Dino:

E2 spikes with low SHBG when on TRT. That's why these men always have to take an AI (at which point total estrogens will frequently become out of range.) Sorry, but the body does not compensate and everything does not simply just work out. Just ask any of the men with low SHBG to show you some labs and you'll feel like the total boob that you sound like to all of us.

CC administration will spike LH when low T will not in a male with secondary hypogonadism. In these men, it is E2 that is suppressing the pulse. If it weren't for SERM administration, the HPTA would remain agnostic to the low T condition. Evidence: all men with secondary HH for whom CC works to restore normal T levels.

Please provide references/links for your 6 paragraphs worth of poorly phrased gobbeldygook. If you have any studies that are smiley and profanity free, I'd like to see those first. Either way, I'd like to read the information in proper English.

 

[Dr JIM]

Goodness where do u come up with this ill defined bullshit young neophyte.

The E-2 spike from TRT so what does that prove? Aromatase converts TT into E-2 well duh absolutely astounding James.

These men ALWAYS have to take an AI! Hmm that's based on what evidence or your "practice experience" Clown

Ask which men James?

Those in MY busy practice don't experience ANY of the changes you have described throughout this thread, which can not otherwise be accurately diagnosed and EFFECTIVELY treated.

Nope those who have "the problems" described throughout this James thread were either concocted by you, exist on some blog as a shadow of yourself, are on Craig's list looking for whatever soothes their emotional needs but IME none are legit James!

Nope they are all unknowing participants in your little science project, where the blind lead the blind into more darkness and unsubstantiated "therapies".

Unfortunately however the primary purpose of this thread is not to heal others but to feed your needful ego.

The former is exactly WHY I and others will continue to question your evidence James.

To ensure no one is blatantly misled into following the therapeutic advice of an foolish laymen who desperately needs some "positive strokes". For the latter try the Clergy, Mental health professional, a significant other or a PET!

 

[James23]

Jim: you are genuinely too naive to bother debating.

The low SHBG condition is common knowledge. It is discussed on every HRT board, not just this one, including boards where I do not post.

The primary purpose of this thread is to share experiences with low SHBG and try to find workarounds or causes. I don't know how to cure it, but I know how to handle trolls like you. You are the same kind of doctor that sends a man with TT of 300 ng/dL out the door with Viagra and Prozac. You are the kind of doctor that this forum loathes, and you only debate to save face because I've called you out as what I've just described.

80% of this entire thread is dominated by your bickering because you aren't up to date on the research.

There are many men in this thread that have E2 issues to due low SHBG, but you don't bother to listen.

I'll guarantee that you either haven't treated a single patient with SHBG below 10 nmol/L, or done so without an AI and thus completely invalidated your own assertion that SHBG is some sort of optional component of HPTA function.

All current research proves that SHBG is absolutely vital and is highly correlated with states of disease. The "Dr. JIM theory of SHBG" is bullshit.

The SHBG-E2 link is common knowledge. You're a dinosaur and a troll. You pretend that the men with low SHBG are faking their lab results. Please leave us alone.

 

[Dr JIM]

Clown I'm not bickering with the likes of you I haven't the time to waste. What I am doing and will continue to do is clarify the importance of SHBG as it relates to male sexuality, but you obviously have an undeclared and unrecognized psychological crevice and this James "LOW SHBG GUY" thread fulfills your otherwise neglected ego!

I mean shit your just like a child James, although you prefer positive reinforcement negative reinforcement will suffice and provides you with enough self proclaimed strokes of achievement. The latter enables you to wade thru the BULLSHIT you proclaim is evidence, yet is anything BUT!

Now FOCUS clown because your "theories" are crap fella, and are evidence based in your land of OZ.! So one last time neophyte a HIGH SHBG especially when associated with a low TT IS ASSOCIATED WITH sexual dysfunction yet the antithesis of that relationship is not however.

Yep indeed the primary thesis of your "low SHBG" thread is not factual but concocted in some rabbit hole and "perfected" by indulging yourself in only that DATA which is supportive of your lame little declaration "Low SHBG causes SD and TRT failure". However the reality is, NO CAUSAL relationship of a LOW SHBG to SD exists, providing TT levels are otherwise WNL. Moreover there is no objective evidence those with a LOW SHBG are more prone to TRT failure as you have stated is FACTUAL on many occasions, numb nuts.

Now perhaps you would like to debate this SHBG issue with evidence based literature rather than the GARBAGE you believe is supportive such as: blog OPINIONS, varied forum anecdotes, newspaper clippings, articles from Ladies Home Journal, or your most innovative post to date, an unreferenced course syllabus.

Fortunately at this juncture I've accomplished my self appointed Meso task, ensure no one takes you seriously especially from a therapeutic perspective.

So carry on with your brain stem leading your cognition, but rest assured "I'll be back" as the need arises. Yea baby [)]

 

[James23]

Dr. Dinosaur:

I'm sorry that you're so "late to the game," but the low SHBG discussion has existed long before me. You can find information about it going back at least 13 years, spanning most of the major HRT boards. I'm simply a sufferer.

You don't need to take so much time out of your "busy" practice to bother us with your assertions that LabCorp and Quest are lying and that everyone with low SHBG is making up their lab results.

If you don't understand what is going on, just shut up and learn.

You have no studies to show normal male function in light of low SHBG. We have over 30 men on this board alone with SHBG issues, no sex drive and high estrogen for whom TRT does not work. You haven't been around nearly as long as many of us, so you really have no idea what you are talking about and you have not read about these cases.

Your personal attacks are lame and transparent. You are the child. You can't handle leaving us alone. You think this is an ego battle. The only ego bruised here is yours. I have nothing to lose. You are the over-the-hill doctor, spending way to much time on the Internet, trying to get us all to believe SHBG is an optional part of male hormonal balance. We don't care. We don't want you here. Go away. Nobody is listening to you. How loudly do we have to say it before you grow up and walk away? You're the bigger man, right? You've got 30 - 40 years on most of us. So, act like it for a change.

At this point, you are violating the rules of the board by hijacking this thread with personal attacks against the contributors and contributing nothing of value to the conversation other than joker smileys and random capitalization.

I'm asking you for the last time to leave us alone.

 

[Dr JIM]

Clown is not a personal attack if true, lol!

Underline the Meso hijack rule especially when a pretentious neophyte like yourself
continues to misapply evidence to suit and serve his own personal psychological needs. I will cease correcting this thread when you cease promoting the JUNK science contained herein.

Wake up James you DONT OWN this thread or any other, because Meso is an open board and there is no foolish HIJACK rule as you suppose. Where do you come up with such HORSESHIT? If you don't like out dump your garbage on another forum, lol [)]

 

[James23]

Clown I'm not bickering with the likes of you I haven't the time to waste.

You're doing a good job of convincing us that you do indeed have plenty of time.

Low SHBG is a known issue. It has nothing to do with me. I'm just a sufferer.

 

[Dr JIM]

Sorry
I dont want to be misunderstood but the last line should read ;

IF you don't like it out you go to dump your garbage on another forum

 

[James23]

Sorry
I dont want to be misunderstood but the last line should read ;

IF you don't like it out you go to dump your garbage on another forum

It's not my garbage. It's a well known condition. Google might serve you well.

You are clearly trolling. Trolling is against the rules.

 

[lxm]

Between all this discussion, can anyone reply in response to my post with their thoughts ?

(and thoughts on most recent bloods)

Dr.Jim #, If I came into your clinic with low T symptoms, and the blood results came back as I've posted, what would your course of action be with my case ? (treatment, advice etc)

 

[James23]

If you check my post directly after yours, I offered my opinion (which is what started Jim's attacks up.)

Essentially, I agree that a standalone AI is worth trying, because other standalone E2 disruptors have worked for myself and others to restore normal testosterone (up to 700 ng/dL.) E2 is the strongest suppressor of the LH pulse, and that's why SERMs like Clomid work to reverse secondary HH.

I am hesitant to assume that it will make you feel better, but I think it is worth trying.

Your E2 is ridiculous, especially in light of the low TT. You do need an AI, no matter what. I'm surprised you aren't seeing signs of gynecomastia. Your SHBG is also one of the lowest I've ever seen, so "ghost" or not, you really ought to find out what that is happening.

 

[lxm]

Ive finally started to feel a little depressed about daily symptoms. Its the first time feeling like this at all since all of this began maybe 4 years ago, I suppose thats good going.

 

[James23]

Are you on Arimdex now?

 

[hardrlz]

James did you try the propionate ?

 

[James23]

James did you try the propionate ?

I'm waiting to get an appointment with the new doctor. It seems that most men who use TP take the IM route. There is no way I am going to create 356/2 deep muscle scars and holes in muscle fascia per year.

 

[Blazerone]

Don't try SQ with prop (terrible pain & swelling) but I've been using 30g, 1/2" needles in delts and quads as a shallow IM injection and 27g, 1-1/2" needles in buttocks for deep IM. The needles are so thin that any damage should be very minor.

Please note that most prop hurt like hell unless you go the ugl route.

Good Luck

I'm waiting to get an appointment with the new doctor. It seems that most men who use TP take the IM route. There is no way I am going to create 356/2 deep muscle scars and holes in muscle fascia per year.