Eddie.
Member
If one gets side effects from such low androgen load, i'd think twice using anything besides test at TRT levels.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Recomping effects of tren possible at 100-120mg/w?
- Thread starter demal
- Start date
If one gets side effects from such low androgen load, i'd think twice using anything besides test at TRT levels.
RockyP
Member
I disagree. Tren is its own entity. There are many, many bodybuilders who run very high dosages of drugs but either won’t touch Tren or use it sparingly. As I’ve mentioned before, John jewett’s recent prep cycle was 1200 test / 1400 mast, 140 tren. There is a reason for that. I know you’ve mentioned in prior posts that you need higher dosages to get results. We’re all different. But these comments about Tren are just plain incorrect. I would agree with you if someone could not tolerate 200 of test for whatever reason. But with Tren it is apples and oranges.
And I’m not trying to be a dick but one could also argue that if one “needs” the dosages you use to get results and you’re not 250+ competing at a high level then you should also just do TRT. I know you have a lot of time in the seat and you know what works for your body. I’m not even really talking to you here. I’m talking to the novice who hasn’t run tren or isn’t really sure what they’re doing and just hops in enanthate out of convenience and then is stuck with insomnia, sweats, emotional issues, etc for weeks and weeks when if they used acetate it would be a few days to clear. This recently happened to a friend of mine who was competing at a pro card qualifier. He hopped on a cut blend towards the end of prep and it was a disaster for his mental state. He still won his class but all he kept saying was “I’m so glad it was acetate.”
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Eddie.
Member
I don't "need" higher dosages, i'm just experimenting to see how's my tolerance and it was the same at 70-140-210mg. I never said that 140 didn't give any results. Also, Jewett is running 140 because he probably doesn't need more (i'm pretty sure in the past working with Jansen he might have used 500-700mg). You mentioned a pro who's prepping for the biggest contest, they want to minimilize risk because besides tren they take a shitload of other drugs which are way more detrimental to health. Also, the fact they present themselves on stage at 3% bodyfat and dehydrated it's enough to mess someone for a lifetime.
You have mentioned that before towards me specifically and i don't get why you compare me or anyone else here with a professional bber like these are the only ones who allowed to take peds. We live in a free world where everyone can do what he wants. If i want to gamble with my health because i'm just enjoying all that stuff, so be it. What's the difference if they have a plastic trophy on the wall?
And to summ it up with my previous post i meant if someone's body gives signs it can't handle 35mg tren then probably using 500mg test or primo won't be a wise idea. There's people surviving and live long from 10gr cycles and people who die of complications from 2gr cycles. It means that not everyone's body can handle it the same.
RockyP
Member
I agree. We’re all different. As I mentioned I’m speaking to the tren novice. I know you have a lot of experience and you know what works for you.
And yes Jewett has said in the past Jansen had him on crazy dosages of everything. The guy basically made a living telling genetic freaks to just take more drugs.
And I agree with you in everything else. If you know how you respond to tren, enanthate is much better than ace.
I remember those.
Liter O' Test
Member
you can front load e, and wwe are talking about double digit milligrams, you really need to worry about the release rate weeks after dosing? come on now
also its not 11 days
RockyP
Member
It is 11 days. A simple search will yield that information. And as I said in posts above I’m speaking mostly to novices. If you have run Tren before then there’s not much reason to NOT use Tren E unless you want a hard stop at some point.
BamaCrazy
Banned
I’ve read the half life of E is 5-7 days, 7-10 days, and also 11 days according to the below study. Strange thing is the study claims Hex’s half life is 8 days but I thought it had the longer half life of the 3.
“The shortest ester of trenbolone is the acetate, with a half-life of 1–2 days; trenbolone hexhydrobenzylcarbonate has a half-life of about 8 days, while trenbolone enanthate has the longest duration of action, with a half-life of 11 days.”
“The shortest ester of trenbolone is the acetate, with a half-life of 1–2 days; trenbolone hexhydrobenzylcarbonate has a half-life of about 8 days, while trenbolone enanthate has the longest duration of action, with a half-life of 11 days.”
RockyP
Member
I’m sure there’s some variability in vivo from person to person. For some these things will linger. For others they’ll be metabolized more quickly. Thank you for sharing the study!
Would also point out that even if we took the low end of 5-7 days that’s 20-28 days minimum for tren E to clear the system. Not great if you’re not accustomed to tren and get stuck with sides. Just ask guys who struggled with Deca sides how long the wait is for that to clear. Or worse, EQ.
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Earthworm Jim
Member
I started 60 tren e daily a month ago and titrated up to 100 daily and pretty much ran into a brick wall with sleep issues. Not experiencing any other sides except the occasional cuss word slipping out when someone doesn't rerack their weights or blocks the dumbbell rack while they lift. So I went down to 50 tren yesterday and had the first full night of sleep in about a week. I think I'll take it down to 40mg daily from here
RockyP
Member
Thank you for sharing your experience. Glad that the sides dissipated so quickly for you.
xrayphoton13
Member
Enanthate is generally stated to be 6-7 day half life so I'm not sure why you extended it out to 11 days. Also you don't need to achieve steady state for tren to work or for any steroid to work. And I can tell you you're never getting steady state off tren ace or test ace/ prop. You get huge fluctuations even with daily pinning on short esters. For tren e or any other enanthate just double the dose for week 1 and enjoy close enough to "steady state" from week 2 onward if these things concern you.
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RockyP
Member
Achieving a steady state is not the issue. It’s the elimination half life. If you get side effects on enanthate you’ll be suffering a hell of a lot longer than if you were running acetate. As I said many times above. If you know how you react to Tren, enanthate makes more sense.
RockyP
Member
If you’re going to post, please research before you do. There’s a study linked on this very thread. Or just do a google search. Test enanthate is 6-7 days. Tren enanthate is 11 days.
Notice anything interesting about that part of the paper?
Notice Steroid Plotter uses these numbers as well and cites this same paper.
What do we know about elimination half life of enanthate and acetate? The ester controls the depot absorption, yes? Under control of flip flop kinetics, yes?
Notice Steroid Plotter uses these numbers as well and cites this same paper.
What do we know about elimination half life of enanthate and acetate? The ester controls the depot absorption, yes? Under control of flip flop kinetics, yes?
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Propionate
https://www.excelmale.com/threads/t...plication-is-a-game-changer.19658/post-224021
https://www.excelmale.com/threads/t...plication-is-a-game-changer.19658/post-224030
What would you argue about acetate vs propionate esters in terms of their apparent elimination half lives based on their chain length?
https://www.excelmale.com/threads/t...plication-is-a-game-changer.19658/post-224021
https://www.excelmale.com/threads/t...plication-is-a-game-changer.19658/post-224030
What would you argue about acetate vs propionate esters in terms of their apparent elimination half lives based on their chain length?
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RockyP
Member
This is very interesting. I actually went in the other direction. From cream to injection. Cream is super convenient but was a little too short acting for me. However my cream was TNE not acetate or prop. Anecdotally I have heard guys feel better on prop but not sure why. One thing about the creamPropionate
Trans scrotal testosterone cream application is a game changer - Page 10 - Excel Male Health Forum
So I was on injections of Testosterone cyp for almost 4 years before switching over to scrotal testosterone cream application. Let me tell you it has been absolutely amazing how much better I feel on the cream verses the injections. I dose it at 150 mg daily (3 clicks), 50 mg in the morning...www.excelmale.com
What would you argue about acetate vs propionate esters in terms of their apparent elimination half lives based on their chain length?
Is that I got much higher free T per same level Of total T. And much higher DHT. But again, it was TNE.
The links dealt with PK profiles of injectable propionate, cypionate, and enanthate.
Dont let the link titles mislead.
