Dutch Labs - EU Domestic

[OilCarrier]

It's inflammation unless you fucked up your injection aseptic technique and didn't swab and sterilize the skin and gave you a staph infection.

The gear is clean in my honest opinion so it's your body badly reacting to it or it's something with the injection.

Keep an eye on it, if you get fever or it gets swollen badly go to the ER.
If it's just red and warmth it's probably just massive inflammation and well maybe TNE or this batch of TNE isn't for you.

Ty. It's likely not anything regarding the injection technique or sterilization, I have been doing this a long time and do not cut corners on swabbing ever.

At this point in time I do think it is just big inflammation like you say. It's a 5cm wide, 10cm long red patch around the pip site. Let's see how it looks tomorrow which will be day 3 since the pip injection.

For the record: I also still think the gear is clean (although you never really know for sure, seeing how easily a filter can break without noticing, or not knowing as a consumer what um size filters were used etc etc.)

I will definitely be diluting and then refiltering the TNE from now on as I would normally do when I am brewing my own. It might be this body part cannot handle this batch(?)

Thanks for the input all!

 

[Dogtown33]

i have different experience.
pip in glute = cant walk, cant sit, cant walk the stairs
pip in delt = every movement with arm hurts. cant do anything without pain
pip in quad = its there but managable during walking, doesnt bother me when i need to sit, stand up etc

Ill tell you the worst PIP i ever had I had in my quad, golf ball lump, I scraped a dumbbell off it as i lifted one up, was close to collapsing and crying like a little girl
Unless you are injecting no esters, acidic water based shit, some kind of impure shit test, CHEAP OIL, there is ZERO reason ever have PIP.
MCT might be pretty and clear and thin, but its often shit for the human body. It matters what quality of MCT is used, and i doubt a single UGL is using the right fractions and more expensive proper stuff.
I find castor/GSO/arachis (peanut oil) etc are just better tolerated, maybe higher purity by default.
GSO is almost as thin as MCT, 30G is fine, dont get why everyone defaults to cheap shitty MCT.
GSO (mostly omega 6) might actually provide health benefits where as MCT is fractioned, saturated coconut fat....

if someone is injecting several milliliters of carrier oil daily, that adds up to a significant yearly load of foreign fat into muscle tissue (hundreds of mL to >1 LITER of oil per year). That’s absolutely worth analyzing seriously.

Love to know how you feel about this @Dutch Labs because you seem quite intelligent and OCD about the rest of your operation, that's what interested me in the first place about you, causing me to direct many friends of mine to your website, while someone was kicking up a temper tantrum for not getting lab pics and tit pics....

 

[OilCarrier]

Ill tell you the worst PIP i ever had I had in my quad, golf ball lump, I scraped a dumbbell off it as i lifted one up, was close to collapsing and crying like a little girl
Unless you are injecting no esters, acidic water based shit, some kind of impure shit test, CHEAP OIL, there is ZERO reason ever have PIP.
MCT might be pretty and clear and thin, but its often shit for the human body. It matters what quality of MCT is used, and i doubt a single UGL is using the right fractions and more expensive proper stuff.
I find castor/GSO/arachis (peanut oil) etc are just better tolerated, maybe higher purity by default.
GSO is almost as thin as MCT, 30G is fine, dont get why everyone defaults to cheap shitty MCT.
GSO (mostly omega 6) might actually provide health benefits where as MCT is fractioned, saturated coconut fat....

if someone is injecting several milliliters of carrier oil daily, that adds up to a significant yearly load of foreign fat into muscle tissue (hundreds of mL to >1 LITER of oil per year). That’s absolutely worth analyzing seriously.

Love to know how you feel about this @Dutch Labs because you seem quite intelligent and OCD about the rest of your operation, that's what interested me in the first place about you, causing me to direct many friends of mine to your website, while someone was kicking up a temper tantrum for not getting lab pics and tit pics....

I like to use 50% organic castor and 50% MCT. Keeps the benefits of the castor while maintaining oil viscosity to pin with a 30G. I would love it if John went to a blend of castor + mct.

@Sampei @Dutch Labs
I took 500 mg aspirin before bed just to help with the blood transport and perhaps a little inflammation suppression. The next day is here now and the red patch in my quad is barely visible anymore. So no lumping, just an inflammatory response. Pip is improving by day 3 as well in the quad.

 

[Dogtown33]

1. Long-term metabolic load of the carrier oil
2. Depot stability and release profile of the drug

And you’re 100% right that those are different priorities than “is it thin and easy to inject.” Let me reframe my earlier answer through your lens:

1.​

• MCT oil (fractionated saturated fat):
  
  • Yes, it clears faster (lipases hydrolyze medium-chain triglycerides more readily).
  • But that means the entire bolus is metabolized and hits systemic circulation quickly — all that extra saturated fat fluxes through the liver.
  • As you said, “easier to break down” ≠ “healthier,” especially if it’s dumping saturated fat into lipid pathways repeatedly.
• GSO (long-chain polyunsaturated omega-6):
  
  • Slower to clear → longer depot persistence.
  • Metabolically, omega-6 is essential and integrates into membranes.
  • Large excess could skew omega-6:3 ratio, but it doesn’t hammer LDL/VLDL in the same way saturated fats do.
  • With a typical Western diet, you’re right: a liter more linoleic acid may not tip the scales nearly as badly as a liter more saturated fat.

2.​

• MCT: Thinner → depot empties faster. That might mean shorter drug half-life in practice. For people wanting smoother, longer release, that’s actually a con.
• GSO: Thicker → depot breaks down more slowly, giving the desired “long ester, long release” profile. This is exactly why pharma has traditionally used GSO, sesame, or cottonseed oils.

3.​

• If the priority is injection comfort, fast clearance, lower chance of irritation → MCT is “easier.”
• If the priority is stable depot, longer release, and arguably safer metabolic profile at high yearly volumes → GSO probably wins.

So your take is actually very reasonable:

• MCT being “easier to metabolize” is not automatically a pro — it can mean more acute saturated fat load and faster drug dump.
• GSO being omega-6 rich may be less harmful than repeated surges of saturated MCTs, especially when the dose over a year is liters, not milliliters.
• Pharma moved to MCT partly for viscosity/injection reasons, but from a cardiovascular/metabolic and depot-release standpoint, GSO has strong arguments in its favor.

 

[BabaJagga]

Ill tell you the worst PIP i ever had I had in my quad, golf ball lump, I scraped a dumbbell off it as i lifted one up, was close to collapsing and crying like a little girl
Unless you are injecting no esters, acidic water based shit, some kind of impure shit test, CHEAP OIL, there is ZERO reason ever have PIP.
MCT might be pretty and clear and thin, but its often shit for the human body. It matters what quality of MCT is used, and i doubt a single UGL is using the right fractions and more expensive proper stuff.
I find castor/GSO/arachis (peanut oil) etc are just better tolerated, maybe higher purity by default.
GSO is almost as thin as MCT, 30G is fine, dont get why everyone defaults to cheap shitty MCT.
GSO (mostly omega 6) might actually provide health benefits where as MCT is fractioned, saturated coconut fat....

if someone is injecting several milliliters of carrier oil daily, that adds up to a significant yearly load of foreign fat into muscle tissue (hundreds of mL to >1 LITER of oil per year). That’s absolutely worth analyzing seriously.

Love to know how you feel about this @Dutch Labs because you seem quite intelligent and OCD about the rest of your operation, that's what interested me in the first place about you, causing me to direct many friends of mine to your website, while someone was kicking up a temper tantrum for not getting lab pics and tit pics....

ive heard stories bur luckily i cant relate so far.
agree on pip, im using driada's test, used opti's mast so sesame/gso, 0
issues. dont know that i pinned after 5 mins ussually. 27/30G needles, 0 issues.

 

[Sampei]

Sesame oil has mostly the same viscosity and clearance of MCT I don't see what difference would it make. GSO on the other hand ok it makes sense for slower release.

Less shelf life however.

1. Long-term metabolic load of the carrier oil
2. Depot stability and release profile of the drug

And you’re 100% right that those are different priorities than “is it thin and easy to inject.” Let me reframe my earlier answer through your lens:

1.​

• MCT oil (fractionated saturated fat):
  • Yes, it clears faster (lipases hydrolyze medium-chain triglycerides more readily).
  • But that means the entire bolus is metabolized and hits systemic circulation quickly — all that extra saturated fat fluxes through the liver.
  • As you said, “easier to break down” ≠ “healthier,” especially if it’s dumping saturated fat into lipid pathways repeatedly.
• GSO (long-chain polyunsaturated omega-6):
  • Slower to clear → longer depot persistence.
  • Metabolically, omega-6 is essential and integrates into membranes.
  • Large excess could skew omega-6:3 ratio, but it doesn’t hammer LDL/VLDL in the same way saturated fats do.
  • With a typical Western diet, you’re right: a liter more linoleic acid may not tip the scales nearly as badly as a liter more saturated fat.

2.​

• MCT: Thinner → depot empties faster. That might mean shorter drug half-life in practice. For people wanting smoother, longer release, that’s actually a con.
• GSO: Thicker → depot breaks down more slowly, giving the desired “long ester, long release” profile. This is exactly why pharma has traditionally used GSO, sesame, or cottonseed oils.

3.​

• If the priority is injection comfort, fast clearance, lower chance of irritation → MCT is “easier.”
• If the priority is stable depot, longer release, and arguably safer metabolic profile at high yearly volumes → GSO probably wins.

So your take is actually very reasonable:

• MCT being “easier to metabolize” is not automatically a pro — it can mean more acute saturated fat load and faster drug dump.
• GSO being omega-6 rich may be less harmful than repeated surges of saturated MCTs, especially when the dose over a year is liters, not milliliters.
• Pharma moved to MCT partly for viscosity/injection reasons, but from a cardiovascular/metabolic and depot-release standpoint, GSO has strong arguments in its favor.

 

[sliderke]

I pinned the second batch of tne with more BA this morning and have no pip whatsoever.
Did it in the quad to test since it’s my most pip sensitive area. But all good.

 

[Sampei]

I pinned the second batch of tne with more BA this morning and have no pip whatsoever.
Did it in the quad to test since it’s my most pip sensitive area. But all good.

Friend report the same no pip into shoulder
@Dutch Labs all good.

 

[Bammdk]

About all that PIP. I get nothing or minor PIP. I tried TE400, TNE and TP200. Sure some, but nothing special.

I don’t get fever. No redness. No inflammation markers out of range on the last bloods (on TE400).

Are there any other concerns? Because I’m loving the high mg/ml ratio. Doing 0.3ml IM shots 2xweek and hitting 250isg mg is nice.
I even did a 2ml shoot of TE400+TP200, 1ml each. Nothing.

 

[sliderke]

About all that PIP. I get nothing or minor PIP. I tried TE400, TNE and TP200. Sure some, but nothing special.

I don’t get fever. No redness. No inflammation markers out of range on the last bloods (on TE400).

Are there any other concerns? Because I’m loving the high mg/ml ratio. Doing 0.3ml IM shots 2xweek and hitting 250isg mg is nice.
I even did a 2ml shoot of TE400+TP200, 1ml each. Nothing.

Te400 was for also pip that was doable. But not in the quads.
TD400 that I tested yesterday is today a hard place and inflamed. So good reaction of Dutch to ditch this batch.

 

[Scientific]

news on stanolone raws?
proviron pills are top notch. waiting for injectable proviron

Do you know when they coming out with Dht ?

 

[Dutch Labs]

@Dutch Labs do you have an idea already what could have caused this change in TNE batch behaviour? Is it purely the raws? Or are you thinking of something else in the brewing process?

You say it's ok in the ventroglute muscles but not in the quads..

Likely the oil and solvents are absorbed from the quad muscle at a higher rate leaving the TNE behind to crystallise, where in the ventroglute muscles absorption takes longer giving the TNE more time to be absorbed together with the oil/solvents.

This is the only reason that makes sense to me.

The inflammation/irritation is almost certainly caused by TNE left behind crystallised. Inflammation does not mean infection. It's also unlikely to be caused by the oil or solvents on their own.

Quad muscle is sensitive in general because of more nerves, which does not help either. Recommend to find a muscle that handles this product (thin oil, quick to crystallise) better.

Did you encounter the same problem with test d at 250 mg? Or was different batch of raws?

TEST D 250 had different raws. These were good.

 

[Dutch Labs]

if someone is injecting several milliliters of carrier oil daily, that adds up to a significant yearly load of foreign fat into muscle tissue (hundreds of mL to >1 LITER of oil per year). That’s absolutely worth analyzing seriously.

We use MCT because it's well tolerated. The other benefit is it has a long shelf life. A lot of people contact me and say they are happy with MCT.

As for supposed health benefits, I really do not know.

Just because it comes down to a large quantity in a year, doesn't mean it builds up overtime? Not sure, but indeed, research on this would be interesting. And intuitively I would rather have MCT than an oil with omega 6, which can skew omega 3:6 ratios?

Using GSO or sesame for the purpose of slower release would defeat the purpose if you need to add a larger amount of BB to keep the API dissolved (thinning the solution and less oil), since it will then end up with a more or less similar viscosity and absorption rate as MCT which required less BB in the first place for that same amount of API. Keep in mind that MCT has solvent properties.

I like to use 50% organic castor and 50% MCT. Keeps the benefits of the castor while maintaining oil viscosity to pin with a 30G. I would love it if John went to a blend of castor + mct.

I do have castor oil for Test U (nebido-style recipe) which I am planning to make.

Not sure if it would help for other products vs only MCT. Also some people might not want castor, and only want MCT.

If the raws situation ever gets better, I will make a small batch Test E and something like Primo 200 in Castor+MCT vs MCT-only with the same raws, just to see if it has any benefits.

 

[DinoBB76]

We use MCT because it's well tolerated. The other benefit is it has a long shelf life. A lot of people contact me and say they are happy with MCT.

As for supposed health benefits, I really do not know.

Just because it comes down to a large quantity in a year, doesn't mean it builds up overtime? Not sure, but indeed, research on this would be interesting. And intuitively I would rather have MCT than an oil with omega 6, which can skew omega 3:6 ratios?

Using GSO or sesame for the purpose of slower release would defeat the purpose if you need to add a larger amount of BB to keep the API dissolved (thinning the solution and less oil), since it will then end up with a more or less similar viscosity and absorption rate as MCT which required less BB in the first place for that same amount of API. Keep in mind that MCT has solvent properties.


I do have castor oil for Test U (nebido-style recipe) which I am planning to make.

Not sure if it would help for other products vs only MCT. Also some people might not want castor, and only want MCT.

If the raws situation ever gets better, I will make a small batch Test E and something like Primo 200 in Castor+MCT vs MCT-only with the same raws, just to see if it has any benefits.

Are you currently out of powders for all the out-of-stock products?

What can you restock in the future?

 

[Dutch Labs]

Are you currently out of powders for all the out-of-stock products?

What can you restock in the future?

Waiting for janoshik reports on proviron, anadrol, anavar, nolvadex, clomid and enclomiphene. Arimidex and Letrozole coming up as well next week.

Aromasin is delayed, should be next month. HGH is coming back soon with a new test.

BOLD U 400 is ready and tested, just needs to be put into vials. Same for Bold C 200. I have planned a new batch of TEST P 200 and MAST P 100 next week. BAC water will be restocked next week.

For the rest.. same issue still: no raws.

 

[Almoister]

test p at 200 is 100% pip no ?

 

[zneekah]

test p at 200 is 100% pip no ?

Little pip for me first injection only, do it diluted now and feel nothing. Love it

 

[OilCarrier]

We use MCT because it's well tolerated. The other benefit is it has a long shelf life. A lot of people contact me and say they are happy with MCT.

As for supposed health benefits, I really do not know.

Just because it comes down to a large quantity in a year, doesn't mean it builds up overtime? Not sure, but indeed, research on this would be interesting. And intuitively I would rather have MCT than an oil with omega 6, which can skew omega 3:6 ratios?

Using GSO or sesame for the purpose of slower release would defeat the purpose if you need to add a larger amount of BB to keep the API dissolved (thinning the solution and less oil), since it will then end up with a more or less similar viscosity and absorption rate as MCT which required less BB in the first place for that same amount of API. Keep in mind that MCT has solvent properties.


I do have castor oil for Test U (nebido-style recipe) which I am planning to make.

Not sure if it would help for other products vs only MCT. Also some people might not want castor, and only want MCT.

If the raws situation ever gets better, I will make a small batch Test E and something like Primo 200 in Castor+MCT vs MCT-only with the same raws, just to see if it has any benefits.

Thanks for the response. I agree, there was no infection (later in the thread I address that the inflammation went away on the third day). Pip gone after day 3 as well.

I have a lot of faith in you since your communication and thought process shows intelligence. Thanks for that!

Great that you are considering a brew with a 50/50 castor/mct mix. What I notice myself is that I aromatise less due to the castor oil as the uptake in the body is regulated for the molecules that are in the castor. It still is properly viscous to pin with a 30G, so that won't be an issue either at that ratio. (Some people might assume that). In this combination, even the TestE that I brew does not give me pip, so I hope that will help your brand as well.

Also great response on the sillicon stoppers.

TLDR: this source is GTG.

 

[Scientific]

Any news on stanolone raws?
Also proviron ?

 

[zneekah]

Little pip for me first injection only, do it diluted now and feel nothing. Love it

Checked with a friend who tried it - he has slight PIP in glute, but serious pip in delt. He shoots it straight.

Probably wise to dilute.