Long Term Lean Bulk Question

[ItCantBe]

The biggest issue here is your stated intent to run these compounds for a long time, perhaps constantly. People just don't do that with harsher compounds like DHB. Sane people don't. Maybe somebody here has and can tell you their story, but whether or not you're that resilient, who knows. We really ought to be debating that part of the plan, not whether the highly unusual thing you're doing is using DHB or something else. Decades of users have found cycling to be a good strategy, so when you don't do that, you're at higher risk for unhappy surprises.

Supplements are helpful, but they don't completely cancel out the stressful effects of the compound. Blood tests are not a perfect picture, either. I've heard stories of people on heavy cycles of harsh gear with good bloodwork who developed liver tumors, for example. Using less harsh compounds causes less damage. Taking breaks gives your body time to repair damage. Doing *neither* of those things seems unnecessarily self-destructive.

About the 5mg...if you're running enough DHB to make it worth the injection, you're running enough DHB to cause damage. If there were doses that were completely harmless but also usefully anabolic, we'd all be using those doses and blasting year-round.

You can always run the experiment -- it's your body. It will no doubt be interesting to see the results if you do.

This is as well put as I could ever hope to. There you go being all eloquent and shit on a gear forum.

 

[BabaJagga]

Totally fair - it’s mainly genetic but anything that raises your DHT, of which Test is one of the worst, will get have your hair falling out much earlier if you have the bald gene

mate if you are worried about hair, dont go anywhere near mast.

about dbh, i wouldnt run it long or short term - too much dmg. simple as that

just run test, increase mg's slowly, find your max tolerable dose and use damn ai.

about that, i dont understand why people dont wanna use ai. just pop the damn pill and be done with it, simple as that
test your estrogen often to see where are you at, keep it in somewhat normal range and for sure you will grow

 

[ItCantBe]

Totally fair - it’s mainly genetic but anything that raises your DHT, of which Test is one of the worst, will get have your hair falling out much earlier if you have the bald gene

If youre prone to hair loss, its going to happen sooner or later, youre only delaying the inevitable with smart compound choice.

 

[nekojeeta]

mate if you are worried about hair, dont go anywhere near mast.

about dbh, i wouldnt run it long or short term - too much dmg. simple as that

just run test, increase mg's slowly, find your max tolerable dose and use damn ai.

about that, i dont understand why people dont wanna use ai. just pop the damn pill and be done with it, simple as that
test your estrogen often to see where are you at, keep it in somewhat normal range and for sure you will grow

The Mast causes hair loss any faster than other compounds a is a broscience myth

 

[nekojeeta]

If youre prone to hair loss, its going to happen sooner or later, youre only delaying the inevitable with smart compound choice.

This is true - but many of us want to hold onto it as long as possible

 

[ItCantBe]

The Mast causes hair loss any faster than other compounds a is a broscience myth

Its really not bro science, nor myth. Mast is a strong DHT derivative, DHT is one of the main culprits for male pattern baldness. Period.

Again with a caveat, if you are going to go bald it will speed it up, if youre not then all the dht in the world wont make you go bald.

 

[verylargeshoes]

about that, i dont understand why people dont wanna use ai. j

I've heard lots of awful things said about AIs, but a lot of them sound like low E2 issues. I'm still trying to learn what the supposed negative effects of the AIs themselves are -- I'm sure there are some, it's just not clear. Perhaps you or some other folks here have some insight on that.

The other reason is probably that it's easy to accidentally hammer your E2 into the ground with AIs. I'm just recovering from over-reacting to elevated E2 with too much aromasin right now. It has definitely made me more hesitant to use an AI. Could I have done the same damage to E2 with EQ or Primo? Probably, so maybe that's an irrational response.

 

[BabaJagga]

The Mast causes hair loss any faster than other compounds a is a broscience myth

sounds like you have been listening to too much todd lee or whatever his name is.

just read experiences on this forum, put your time into that

from my short, intense personal experience since january, test did not touched my hair, nor proviron or oxandrolone.

after i started mast my hairline is sloowly fading away. not that i care, i shave it eod with razor but its rhere and its 100% since i added mast. 300/500mg.

 

[BabaJagga]

I've heard lots of awful things said about AIs, but a lot of them sound like low E2 issues. I'm still trying to learn what the supposed negative effects of the AIs themselves are -- I'm sure there are some, it's just not clear. Perhaps you or some other folks here have some insight on that.

The other reason is probably that it's easy to accidentally hammer your E2 into the ground with AIs. I'm just recovering from over-reacting to elevated E2 with too much aromasin right now. It has definitely made me more hesitant to use an AI. Could I have done the same damage to E2 with EQ or Primo? Probably, so maybe that's an irrational response.

from what ive read si far, sounds like crushed e2, thats right

arimidex i think suppresses hdl so you dont wanna run it long term. aromasin should be okay without much negatives.

i run aromasin and so far so good, 0 issues with it.

i think it may be some modern trend, idk.
in my logic i will use drug suited for its purpose. so, high test -> high estrogen -> ai = normal estrogen. problem solved.

 

[IndividualMan]

I’ve been reading a ton and the only sides that I’m seeing people experience on DHB is 1) liver issues, and that seems to be people running high doses and no liver support; and 2) strong pip which seems to be mainly a concentration/brewing issue that you can take steps to avoid

Again leaning more towards just using MastE… but not seeing a lot of actual downsides to the DHB from reading through posts across multiple forums outside of the couple I mentioned above

had a buddy pissing foam week 3 on low dose DHB. shit was mental.

for your second anabolic: way cmore test, an AI, and fin/dut

or

Up the test a bit and add a little bit of primo/mast

 

[dinfar1337]

had a buddy pissing foam week 3 on low dose DHB. shit was mental.

for your second anabolic: way cmore test, an AI, and fin/dut

or

Up the test a bit and add a little bit of primo/mast

he dosent want to lose the hair so both primo and mast is a bad idea! lmao but testosterone is also a bad idea; wait this guy maybe shouldn't use steroids if he dont wanna risk his hair?

 

[IndividualMan]

very real. he could start horsing around tho, or neigh?

 

[cousinmuscles]

The Mast causes hair loss any faster than other compounds a is a broscience myth

Hold on - is your reference a youtube channel (Todd Lee) or shared experience from your group of friends who has been cycling AAS for years?

Also, how come you use this conclusion when you haven't tried higher test to see what it does for you re hair loss? I for example do not lose head hear at all, and whatever dose of test or other AAS won't change that.

 

[nekojeeta]

I've heard lots of awful things said about AIs, but a lot of them sound like low E2 issues. I'm still trying to learn what the supposed negative effects of the AIs themselves are -- I'm sure there are some, it's just not clear. Perhaps you or some other folks here have some insight on that.

The other reason is probably that it's easy to accidentally hammer your E2 into the ground with AIs. I'm just recovering from over-reacting to elevated E2 with too much aromasin right now. It has definitely made me more hesitant to use an AI. Could I have done the same damage to E2 with EQ or Primo? Probably, so maybe that's an irrational response.

Long term AI usage does have some negative consequences on your body… but for me I know the max dose of Test I can run to not only get sides but to generate the e2 I need to get max igf1 conversion to igf1.

MastE is a less harsh way to get that anabolic load

DHB seems to not mess with e2 and based on what I’ve read so far no worse on dht than mast

 

[dinfar1337]

Long term AI usage does have some negative consequences on your body… but for me I know the max dose of Test I can run to not only get sides but to generate the e2 I need to get max igf1 conversion to igf1.

MastE is a less harsh way to get that anabolic load

DHB seems to not mess with e2 and based on what I’ve read so far no worse on dht than mast

bro, i dont even wanna chat with you.

everything you say is wrong. do more research

 

[Eddie.]

The Mast causes hair loss any faster than other compounds a is a broscience myth

Of course it’s a myth, all the bald bros saying mast wrecked their hairline more than anything else are paid actors.

 

[cousinmuscles]

I’m looking to start adding in another anabolic in the next 6-12 months and I’m looking for some advice.

Background:
I started focusing on my health ~1 year ago, after finding out that I had low test (hypogonadism), that I was prediabetic, and that the wife was pregnant.

Since then I’ve lost 80 lbs of fat, gained 15 lbs of muscle and I’m sitting at a little below 20% bodyfat based on my latest DEXA scan…

I’ve been on TRT the last 9 months and have my dose dialed in at 25mg a day (highest dose I can handle without needing an AI) and I’m taking 4.5iu’s of HGH a day (3ius IM before bed and 1.5 Subq upon waking up).

My diet is clean, I lift 3-4 days a week, and I do 45-60 mins of low impact cardio a day.

Goals:
Once I hit ~10-12% BF I’m thinking of adding in another compound. My goal isn’t really to do a cycle… but instead do a low dose lean bulk that I can basically do indefinitely as long as my bloodwork looks good.

I’m currently considering two approaches and I wanted to get some input as I’m mainly worried that starting mg amounts may not make sense (I have access to both compounds):

Option 1:
- Start adding in 5mg of DHB a day (and add some liver supplements).
- As my strength and muscle gains plateau add in another 5mg of DHB a day
- Keep doing this as long as needed until health markers start to decline (sounds like a liver GGT value of 40 would be the cut off point)
- Then start adding in MastE

Option 2:
- Skip the DHB and just start with MastE at 10mg a day and go up in 10mg a day increments as my strength and muscle gains plateau

I’m thinking that Option 2 may be safer overall, but in either case I’m not sure if a 5 or 10 mg daily dose is too small or not.

Thanks

All of this is too complicated and sounds like textbook Todd Lee youtube script.

It is difficult to sell old basic recipes, so what youtube content creators do is try to be authentic with original content, regardless if it is better than the old basic proven recipes.

You are talking about not using an AI and then adding masteron, or even worse, DHB. Why not research which AIs you can use and compare with masteron?

Let me give you a short cut to what you will figure out in a few years and tons of money spent:

Arimidex affects lipids just a bit, barely noticeable, and even less if you figure out your minimum effective dose. Exemestane affects them even less - personally I barely got changes in lipids from test only with exemestane cycles. Masteron, however, will crush your lipids, and from my experience and shared experience with real life friends who have used AAS for years, dosages in the ~300-500mg range don't seem to build any muscle, but give nice cosmetic benefits which you have to be lean to notice. It also gives a CNS boost which all AAS do as you go up in total milligrams.

To sum it up, masteron will wreck your lipids while exemestane will barely make a difference. Masteron will also cost exorbitantly more than exemestane. Testosterone is the best bet for mass and strength, while also the safest option for health. So substituting testosterone with masteron because you won't need an AI just makes no sense.

I also feel compelled to tell you that both masteron and DHB are not for beginners, they are for specific purposes at specific times, none which you have mentioned a need for.

 

[dinfar1337]

All of this is too complicated and sounds like textbook Todd Lee youtube script.

It is difficult to sell old basic recipes, so what youtube content creators do is try to be authentic with original content, regardless if it is better than the old basic proven recipes.

You are talking about not using an AI and then adding masteron, or even worse, DHB. Why not research which AIs you can use and compare with masteron?

Let me give you a short cut to what you will figure out in a few years and tons of money spent:

Arimidex affects lipids just a bit, barely noticeable, and even less if you figure out your minimum effective dose. Exemestane affects them even less - personally I barely got changes in lipids from test only with exemestane cycles. Masteron, however, will crush your lipids, and from my experience and shared experience with real life friends who have used AAS for years, dosages in the ~300-500mg range don't seem to build any muscle, but give nice cosmetic benefits which you have to be lean to notice. It also gives a CNS boost which all AAS do as you go up in total milligrams.

To sum it up, masteron will wreck your lipids while exemestane will barely make a difference. Masteron will also cost exorbitantly more than exemestane. Testosterone is the best bet for mass and strength, while also the safest option for health. So substituting testosterone with masteron because you won't need an AI just makes no sense.

I also feel compelled to tell you that both masteron and DHB are not for beginners, they are for specific purposes at specific times, none which you have mentioned a need for.

so much agreed, any steroid at all for me shines so much better at 400mg mark or above. i am the biggest hater of low dosing getting all the sides but minimal gain

 

[nekojeeta]

sounds like you have been listening to too much todd lee or whatever his name is.

just read experiences on this forum, put your time into that

from my short, intense personal experience since january, test did not touched my hair, nor proviron or oxandrolone.

after i started mast my hairline is sloowly fading away. not that i care, i shave it eod with razor but its rhere and its 100% since i added mast. 300/500mg.

I read a lot of different resources and listen to a lot of people.. Todd Lee, Joe Jeffreys, and Jewett are all on the better end of resources albeit I don’t blindly trust anything they say

 

[nekojeeta]

he dosent want to lose the hair so both primo and mast is a bad idea! lmao but testosterone is also a bad idea; wait this guy maybe shouldn't use steroids if he dont wanna risk his hair?

They all can cause hair loss… test will make it happen faster as it rises dht the most. As long as u got aloe on upping doses and keep getting bloodwork the risk of hair loss can be managed..

I know, fuck me for doing shit right?