Using estradiol injection to allow for low test cycles

[Sampei]

So I have been thinking of a new possible approach for using some substances that are usually a bit tricky due to the lowering estrogen ability they have attached to their use so that one could use high dose of these mild compounds without having to blast test very high.

EQ and Primo are the main focus of this brainstorm idea I'm having, but Nandrolone can be another one.

So I can't run any of these two substances on a ratio of 1:1 without killing my E2.
I have noticed that both substances are great run at high dosages with minimum impacts on bloods especially EQ for me is a breeze with no side effect except those damn low E2.

I have been thinking, why not run 500mg of test as a base and then 1.5G of EQ for example and to balance E2 just inject low dosages of estradiol cypionate?

You could run a very high anabolic cycle with minimal sides and still have a healthy level of E2.

Please rip me a new one or give me your criticism/ideas on this approach.

 

[Ciaranko]

I dont know enough about this to validate you or rip you a new one but i have been wondering for a while if you can even get estradiol cypionate from an ugl. Does anyone of the brands here even have that? I had this theory that if i was a woman but i had small ti#ties i could just get me some of that and grow them. Sorry to come here and be weird when u're looking for serious advice hehe

 

[xrayphoton13]

I dont know enough about this to validate you or rip you a new one but i have been wondering for a while if you can even get estradiol cypionate from an ugl. Does anyone of the brands here even have that? I had this theory that if i was a woman but i had small ti#ties i could just get me some of that and grow them. Sorry to come here and be weird when u're looking for serious advice hehe

Ummm that's not how that works.

But yes you can pick up vials of estradiol cyp from vendors here like SSA. Probably easier to gets the raws though

 

[BamaCrazy]

I dont know enough about this to validate you or rip you a new one but i have been wondering for a while if you can even get estradiol cypionate from an ugl. Does anyone of the brands here even have that? I had this theory that if i was a woman but i had small ti#ties i could just get me some of that and grow them. Sorry to come here and be weird when u're looking for serious advice hehe

You can buy estradiol cypionate and estradiol Valerate from UGL. Plus SSA and others sell the raws.

 

[xrayphoton13]

I'm sure you've seen this post by type-IIx and I don't think the two of you get along:

Thread 'Why you should NOT take estrogens (Exogenous E2 ≠ Test's aromatic product)' Why you should NOT take estrogens (Exogenous E2 ≠ Test's aromatic product)

For someone who is using exogenous e2 look up posts here by member para_33. Aka Austin Oral. He's talked about it in some YouTube videos like this one:

View: https://youtu.be/HVvh-0HELDM?si=fTPyLmh8VTEP4XiX


Here is his insta where he has some videos on it too: Login • Instagram

 

[verylargeshoes]

I'm sure you've seen this post by type-IIx and I don't think the two of you get along:

Thread 'Why you should NOT take estrogens (Exogenous E2 ≠ Test's aromatic product)' Why you should NOT take estrogens (Exogenous E2 ≠ Test's aromatic product)

It's unfortunate that he doesn't actually explain the reasoning and evidence behind his assertion, but just gestures at a pile of references and leaves it as an exercise for the student. The post itself was not enlightening. If anybody has done their homework on this, I'd love to hear more about it.

 

[Sampei]

I'm sure you've seen this post by type-IIx and I don't think the two of you get along:

Thread 'Why you should NOT take estrogens (Exogenous E2 ≠ Test's aromatic product)' Why you should NOT take estrogens (Exogenous E2 ≠ Test's aromatic product)

For someone who is using exogenous e2 look up posts here by member para_33. Aka Austin Oral. He's talked about it in some YouTube videos like this one:

View: https://youtu.be/HVvh-0HELDM?si=fTPyLmh8VTEP4XiX


Here is his insta where he has some videos on it too: Login • Instagram

I'll start reading!

And it seems as usual typical typeII stuff, say something and doesn't explain why at all.

We use HCG to raise estrogen, we use test or dbol or many other substances to keep estrogen at a healthy level so why not just inject estradiol and use other substances for anabolic/androgenic benefit?

The only reason we inject test mostly is to keep ourselves with healthy test/estrogen levels.

 

[glpfun]

I’ve thought about this too, could have sworn there was a guy in discord that was doing it and he was big muscle man

 

[BamaCrazy]

I’ve wondered about this also. Months ago I came across two weight lifters who tried this and kept an online log updating forum members on how things were going. It worked of course. And of course they caught a lot of hell from people.

Our bodies produce testosterone, estrogen and numerous other hormones. We use exogenous testosterone, so why not use exogenous estrogen? I was never able to find evidence that it’s more harmful than some of the other compounds we are using. But it goes against traditional thinking so you are going to receive some pushback.

 

[verylargeshoes]

Our bodies produce testosterone, estrogen and numerous other hormones. We use exogenous testosterone, so why not use exogenous estrogen? I was never able to find evidence that it’s more harmful than some of the other compounds we are using. But it goes against traditional thinking so you are going to receive some pushback.

My wife is in early perimenopause and is taking estradiol and testosterone. Both sexes use the same hormones. They are not to my knowledge chemically distinct.

So if this assertion of Type IIx has any truth, it seems to be focusing on the wrong attributes. What does the route of production of estradiol matter? 17β-estradiol is 17β-estradiol. Women even produce some of their estradiol through aromatization of testosterone.

Aromatic products ✓ (positive effects)
Exogenous estrogens ✖ (negative effects)

 

[BabaJagga]

ive read about this from para_33 in some post here. its interesting idea. he wrote that primo kills esteogen only produced via aromatize enzyme, not injected one.

i have not studied it deeply but if it allows you to use trt dose of test to have just enough of it + lot of primo for example, it cant be that bad? sounds like clever solution for people that cant stand test sides for example or are sensitive to esteogen. fixed number/level of estrogen via injection, to suit persons best lebel for best feel + bigger dose of "safe" anabolic for growth.

on paper it sounds good

 

[Sampei]

ive read about this from para_33 in some post here. its interesting idea. he wrote that primo kills esteogen only produced via aromatize enzyme, not injected one.

i have not studied it deeply but if it allows you to use trt dose of test to have just enough of it + lot of primo for example, it cant be that bad? sounds like clever solution for people that cant stand test sides for example or are sensitive to esteogen. fixed number/level of estrogen via injection, to suit persons best lebel for best feel + bigger dose of "safe" anabolic for growth.

on paper it sounds good

Yeah my idea is to be able to run higher dose of EQ or primo without having to blast grams of test.

Not that I don't like test but I mean above a threshold it's just not as good as other anabolic in my opinions.

500mg of test and 1.5G of EQ to me seems healthier and with better possible gainz than 1G of each.

Or 500mg test 1.5g EQ and 600mg primo. Damn looks like a crazy good cycle. Impossible to.run it without estradiol injection at least for me. I would have estrogen to -0 without exogenous estradiol xD

 

[BabaJagga]

Yeah my idea is to be able to run higher dose of EQ or primo without having to blast grams of test.

Not that I don't like test but I mean above a threshold it's just not as good as other anabolic in my opinions.

500mg of test and 1.5G of EQ to me seems healthier and with better possible gainz than 1G of each.

Or 500mg test 1.5g EQ and 600mg primo. Damn looks like a crazy good cycle. Impossible to.run it without estradiol injection at least for me. I would have estrogen to -0 without exogenous estradiol xD

i cant comment from personal experience with any of those. yet. but plan to run primo in nesr furure so im interested how will i handle it.

i had blood test as natural with esteogen 14 i think (us units, pg/ml?) and i felt fine. 0
issues. will see but so far, i was at 500mg of test + ai (okay probably bit more cause i overfilled syringes..) and i didnt like that look that much. watery, soft kind of. i was water baloon for while.

let us know how it will go for you cause i think its unique idea that could work long term. but it will be probably controversial cause you are injectin damn esteogen into you.

 

[BabaJagga]

Yeah my idea is to be able to run higher dose of EQ or primo without having to blast grams of test.

Not that I don't like test but I mean above a threshold it's just not as good as other anabolic in my opinions.

500mg of test and 1.5G of EQ to me seems healthier and with better possible gainz than 1G of each.

Or 500mg test 1.5g EQ and 600mg primo. Damn looks like a crazy good cycle. Impossible to.run it without estradiol injection at least for me. I would have estrogen to -0 without exogenous estradiol xD

also, im lookin at ssa pricelist, they have 10 different estrogen raws and cypionate as finished oil. so it shouldnt be big issue

probably you will need to find your ideal dose/range. im not sure how to do it, maybe low trt dose of test so you know where your estrogen sits, inject some and crush one produced via aromatize enzyme with primo/ai and adjist injectable dose until you find your sweet spot.

just an idea from my head, i have no idea if it would work...

 

[BamaCrazy]

also, im lookin at ssa pricelist, they have 10 different estrogen raws and cypionate as finished oil. so it shouldnt be big issue

probably you will need to find your ideal dose/range. im not sure how to do it, maybe low trt dose of test so you know where your estrogen sits, inject some and crush one produced via aromatize enzyme with primo/ai and adjist injectable dose until you find your sweet spot.

just an idea from my head, i have no idea if it would work...

PPL has Valerate and Cypionate oils Domestic and International. I have them both. My Wife was using the Valerate until she got a prescription.

 

[Jin23]

I'll start reading!

And it seems as usual typical typeII stuff, say something and doesn't explain why at all.

We use HCG to raise estrogen, we use test or dbol or many other substances to keep estrogen at a healthy level so why not just inject estradiol and use other substances for anabolic/androgenic benefit?

The only reason we inject test mostly is to keep ourselves with healthy test/estrogen levels.

Because, it's far from simple as that. For one, the most simplest to answer; serum estradiol levels don't exactly corelate to tissue/local estradiol levels, those are controlled by various factors, but most notably, local aromatase expression and indiscriminately elevating serum estradiol levels bypasses this homeostatic mechanism. But expanding further, most all anabolics are anti estrogenic visa vie second messenger systems, or at the receptor level which I think mostly happens via downregulating/competing for the same gene transcription cofactors. (but there are other, non genomic ways in which ER degradation happens ofc, which are stimulated by androgens)

It is a rather known fact that anabolics blunt the response to estrogens (gyno is well studied) and androgen expression varies tissue by tissue as does estrogen, so you might get a rather unfavorable estrogenic response in your brain (which you really don't want) and a mild one somewhere else, ...

I'm half a sleep and have forgotten much of what I've studied on the matter some time ago, so I hope you take your time and do some more in-depth research.

How much all of this matters? I have no idea, but probably you'll live. There are two sources in eu that sell E2 for the LGBT crowd which I found some time ago when I was looking for HRT for my mother. I can send you the links and then you two can talk, compare results?

 

[Anonymous member 154437]

Interesting guy. Figured out a no testosterone cycle with non aromatizing compounds and estradiol valerate

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QF8FscWjvwU&pp=ygUgVHJlbmVteSAjMSBubyB0ZXN0b3N0ZXJvbmUgY3ljbGU%3D

 

[verylargeshoes]

Interesting guy. Figured out a no testosterone cycle with non aromatizing compounds and estradiol valerate

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QF8FscWjvwU&pp=ygUgVHJlbmVteSAjMSBubyB0ZXN0b3N0ZXJvbmUgY3ljbGU%3D

“Interesting” for sure. Apparently he and his wife also have an Onlyfans.

 

[bananafeet]

I think the issue is E2 is a peracrine hormone much like DHT.

So apparently blood levels don't indicate tissue levels. This is one of the major arguments against AIs. There is a theory that certain tissues might be starved of E2 even though blood levels are "in range".

EQ does produce a lot of estrogens but they have a lower binding affinity for the ER so can't fullfill the role of E2.

I looked into nandralone only cycles for hair protection but kinda realised that the mental effects are due to lack of neurosteroids because DHN doesn't covert into the correct downstream hormones in the brain when reduced by 3a-HSD. The lack of neurosteroids causes dopamine issues which is why people start abusing cabergoline. Trenemy has issues with this but blames it on prolactin when it's actually a dopamine issue caused by 19nors...

Anyway that's my broscience uneducated take.

 

[verylargeshoes]

I looked into nandralone only cycles for hair protection but kinda realised that the mental effects are due to lack of neurosteroids because DHN doesn't covert into the correct downstream hormones in the brain when reduced by 3a-HSD. The lack of neurosteroids causes dopamine issues which is why people start abusing cabergoline. Trenemy has issues with this but blames it on prolactin when it's actually a dopamine issue caused by 19nors...

I haven’t tried a serious cycle with 19nors yet, but I plan to soon. I’m on prescribed prami so it’ll be interesting to see how mood protective my existing regimen is.