Anxiety Medications. What has worked for you?

[jJjburton]

It definitely is. It was rescheduled sometime in the past couple of years. I work at a behavioral health center and it is on our list of both addictive substances and narcotics. Be careful with that stuff.

I thought only in certain states it was considered controlled substance? Is controlled substance and narcotic the same thing?

Because if my state its not considered a controlled substance, in the USA only 10-12 states consider it a controlled substance


Edit-yes the the above statement….

 

[jJjburton]

Apologies, I just looked it up and it is only classified as a schedule five controlled substance in certain states, mine being one of them. It is not an opiate but can be mildly addictive.

That said pregabalin is a controlled substance in all states , but gabapentin is not….

 

[Inspired]

Guys and gals please dont think there are non addictive benzos. Just some less than others. The medium and longer t1/2 ones counterintuitively have the lower addiction and rebound risk. I will post more on this when I can. Awesome job @Inspired . Quality info.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1600-0404.2008.01004.x

See section labeled Withdrawal.

...
Numerous reports have identified certain predictors of the occurrence or increased severity of withdrawal symptoms: higher BZD dose (200–204), longer duration of BZD use (202, 203, 205, 206), immediate cessation or rapid tapering of the BZD dose (200, 203, 204, 207–209), history of drug abuse (202, 203), dependence on other drugs (209), personality pathology (e.g. neuroticism and dependency) (203) and a diagnosis of panic disorder (203). A number of studies have investigated withdrawal symptoms associated with the BZDs reviewed herein. Some reports have suggested that BZD t1/2 does not influence withdrawal symptoms (208, 210). However, results from other studies have suggested that, compared with long-t1/2 BZDs, BZDs with short t1/2 are associated with faster onset of withdrawal symptoms or more severe withdrawal symptoms when BZD therapy is stopped abruptly (211, 212). In a meta-analysis of seven studies, Hallfors and Saxe (213) found that patients treated with short-t1/2 BZDs were more likely to experience rebound anxiety than were patients treated with long-t1/2 BZDs. Additionally, rebound anxiety was noted to develop more rapidly in patients treated with short-t1/2 BZDs than in patients treated with long-t1/2 BZDs. Finally, results from sleep laboratory studies suggest that rebound insomnia and withdrawal symptoms are more likely to be associated with BZDs that have a short or intermediate t1/2 than with BZDs that have a longer t1/2, such as diazepam (214).

Contrary to popular opinion, most people who take benzos are not addicted to them and don't abuse them, nor do they automatically develop an addiction. It seems that once people learn that there is recreational potential or they read about the hype of these magical benzos and learn of their potential addictive qualities, that's when it becomes like a self fulfilling prophecy and the person is more likely to believe they will be addicted and become addicted. In other words, it's psychological addiction. There are physical discomforts that are possible during benzo withdrawal, so there's a physical component also, but it's really exaggerated. And if you eat many milligrams of benzo's per day and suddenly stop taking them, some people can have things like seizures, but if people take them responsibly, then that's not going to happen.

Short acting benzos are better for many people because they are in and out of the system quickly, the body can begin healing/adjusting quickly. Withdrawal feels harder initially from short acting benzo's, but the withdrawals are easier overall because it is shorter. This whole long acting benzo withdrawal is retarded and wrong. Like using Diazepam with stays in your system forever. Terrible. Maybe a few pills of a long acting benzo to smoothen things out for a day or a week, but beyond that, using long acting benzo's for this purpose just prolongs the process. Expect to lose a night or two or three of sleep when withdrawing from short acting benzo.

Benzo's are useful tools. I don't recommend starting them or using them, but sometimes they are the best tools for the job. I think clonazepam is the best one. For people who haven't tried benzo's, I wouldn't casually try them. I'd stay away from them. But if you really think that a benzo may be for you and you have bad panic disorder, and you need something to help you, then go ahead and try a benzo because they work. You can absolutely use them responsibly.

 

[readalot]

Contrary to popular opinion, most people who take benzos are not addicted to them and don't abuse them, nor do they automatically develop an addiction. It seems that once people learn that there is recreational potential or they read about the hype of these magical benzos and learn of their potential addictive qualities, that's when it becomes like a self fulfilling prophecy and the person is more likely to believe they will be addicted and become addicted. In other words, it's psychological addiction. There are physical discomforts that are possible during benzo withdrawal, so there's a physical component also, but it's really exaggerated. And if you eat many milligrams of benzo's per day and suddenly stop taking them, some people can have things like seizures, but if people take them responsibly, then that's not going to happen.

Short acting benzos are better for many people because they are in and out of the system quickly, the body can begin healing/adjusting quickly. Withdrawal feels harder initially from short acting benzo's, but the withdrawals are easier overall because it is shorter. This whole long acting benzo withdrawal is retarded and wrong. Like using Diazepam with stays in your system forever. Terrible. Maybe a few pills of a long acting benzo to smoothen things out for a day or a week, but beyond that, using long acting benzo's for this purpose just prolongs the process. Expect to lose a night or two or three of sleep when withdrawing from short acting benzo.

Benzo's are useful tools. I don't recommend starting them or using them, but sometimes they are the best tools for the job. I think clonazepam is the best one. For people who haven't tried benzo's, I wouldn't casually try them. I'd stay away from them. But if you really think that a benzo may be for you and you have bad panic disorder, and you need something to help you, then go ahead and try a benzo because they work. You can absolutely use them responsibly.

0.5 mg 1 to 3 times a week at night for me currently (clonazepam). Never more than 3 nights in a row and not more than 3 out of every 7 days. Thanks for your comments.

I recently stopped escitalopram after 1 year on. Worked really well for panic but had to finally stop given the worsening anhedonia. I am hopeful the panic stays away after the environmental/brain reset with escitalopram.

 

[Inspired]

0.5 mg 1 to 3 times a week at night for me currently (clonazepam). Never more than 3 nights in a row and not more than 3 out of every 7 days. Thanks for your comments.

I recently stopped escitalopram after 1 year on. Worked really well for panic but had to finally stop given the worsening anhedonia. I am hopeful the panic stays away after the environmental/brain reset with escitalopram.

Using clonazepam like this is fine. In fact, I recommend you read the article at this link. Klonopin: Protecting the Brain

Dr. Cheney was a famous doctor who treated chronic fatigue syndrome and other illnesses. His use of clonazepam is very helpful.

I think it's good to have Escitalopram in your back pocket, in case you feel desperate. It works very quickly.

 

[readalot]

The last 6 weeks I had added Wellbutrin to the Lexapro and that was total sh*t. That is when I realized I had to come off everything cold turkey.

Post up your complete labs and I will be happy to take a look.

LCMS for TT
equilibrium dialysis for FT
Shbg
E2
Lh
Fsh
Etc etc.

@Seppuku down voting me lol.

Thanks Brother. Now I can see how the thumbs down votes play into the reaction score. Well done!




Thanks for reminding me to rewatch this awesomeness soon.

DAMN guys LOL!


View: https://youtu.be/py37IFuKxYw

 

[Seppuku]

Yes, you're an idiot if you believe there are non-addictive benzos.

And yet, i've clearly described how i took it, twice a day, for two years (actually, not Sundays as i only took it when at work) - and had to stop cold turkey, with no withdrawals. I HAVE had withdrawals from pregabalin, ghb, and from sertraline - not from pyrazolam. I was prescribed a months worth of diazepam to help get through sertraline withdrawals, and was unable to cold turkey that (had to go back on then do a taper). You can believe what the f**k you want though, and readaload can scoff sarcastically all he wants, i couldn't give a shit. Don't buy it. Don't try it. I could care less. My experience was the same as every other experience i've read from other people using pyrazolam. You believe what you want though, i look forward to more thumbs down from you and wankalot

 

[readalot]

@Seppuku I know you are curious so here you go....

The dislike votes do not affect reaction score. So appreciate your help to better understand what role each one of the reaction options plays in the reaction score. Well done.

Seriously though, take care Brother. Read the resources I shared with you. Quit providing misinformation to folks.

 

[Inspired]

I don't get it. The Seppuku dude contributed to the thread with a mention of a rare (and new for many people) benzo, which he endorsed through his experience. And you gave him a thumbs down. So now he gives you a thumbs down as payback.

Am I missing something here?

readalot: this isn't reddit. Stop talking like......what is described in the Idiocracy clip you posted. Because that's what you sound like.

 

[RiceNKimchi]

600 is also a high dose. How has it worked for you long term? You saw no need for upping the dose and how come you had to lower it? That's pretty untypical for anxiolytics unless you're still finding your minimum required dose ...

I lowered it because the tolerance built. I am prescribed. I stopped voluntarily and it sucked. After it cleared I restarted at a lower dosage. Same effect. I am not doing this recreationally. Shit helps alot but there is tolerance.

 

[RiceNKimchi]

Contrary to popular opinion, most people who take benzos are not addicted to them and don't abuse them, nor do they automatically develop an addiction. It seems that once people learn that there is recreational potential or they read about the hype of these magical benzos and learn of their potential addictive qualities, that's when it becomes like a self fulfilling prophecy and the person is more likely to believe they will be addicted and become addicted. In other words, it's psychological addiction. There are physical discomforts that are possible during benzo withdrawal, so there's a physical component also, but it's really exaggerated. And if you eat many milligrams of benzo's per day and suddenly stop taking them, some people can have things like seizures, but if people take them responsibly, then that's not going to happen.

Short acting benzos are better for many people because they are in and out of the system quickly, the body can begin healing/adjusting quickly. Withdrawal feels harder initially from short acting benzo's, but the withdrawals are easier overall because it is shorter. This whole long acting benzo withdrawal is retarded and wrong. Like using Diazepam with stays in your system forever. Terrible. Maybe a few pills of a long acting benzo to smoothen things out for a day or a week, but beyond that, using long acting benzo's for this purpose just prolongs the process. Expect to lose a night or two or three of sleep when withdrawing from short acting benzo.

Benzo's are useful tools. I don't recommend starting them or using them, but sometimes they are the best tools for the job. I think clonazepam is the best one. For people who haven't tried benzo's, I wouldn't casually try them. I'd stay away from them. But if you really think that a benzo may be for you and you have bad panic disorder, and you need something to help you, then go ahead and try a benzo because they work. You can absolutely use them responsibly.

They're addictive to some people that's the main problem. It's not why or how. I've seen benzos ruin lives, instant get in jail card, they have use but personal diagnosis and individual medical evaluation is not the way for most imo.

 

[Inspired]

They're addictive to some people that's the main problem. It's not why or how. I've seen benzos ruin lives, instant get in jail card, they have use but personal diagnosis and individual medical evaluation is not the way for most imo.

In most circumstances, those people are stupid and would have ruined their lives another way. Most of those people also use multiple drugs and alcohol etc.

The overwhelming majority of people use their prescribed benzos responsibly and it's certainly not fair to label benzos as this addictive menace because we have too many stupid people who are going to screw up no matter what they use.

 

[RiceNKimchi]

In most circumstances, those people are stupid and would have ruined their lives another way. Most of those people also use multiple drugs and alcohol etc.

The overwhelming majority of people use their prescribed benzos responsibly and it's certainly not fair to label benzos as this addictive menace because we have too many stupid people who are going to screw up no matter what they use.

I agree to an extent. I've had a benzo problem when younger. I'm a functional, contributing adult. I wouldn't wish what I went through to others though.

 

[RiceNKimchi]

The focus on mental health in our current situation is great but the rapid encouragement of strong drugs is not. We use to say oh you can't stay focused here's Adderall, Vyvanse, Ritalin. Where in another phase where oh you have anixety benzos work... and they do.

The problem is many don't need them.

 

[Inspired]

I agree to an extent. I've had a benzo problem when younger. I'm a functional, contributing adult. I wouldn't wish what I went through to others though.

I agree. I don't recommend taking benzos at all. What ticks me off though is the extreme positions taken on the issue. There's no voice out there speaking up for those people who are taking benzos responsibly and who go about their lives normally. If you read online, there are two groups of people. One group lightheartedly and openly, brags about severely abusing benzos. The other group, is an extreme fear mongering anti benzo group, who has attempted to create an actual cult, revolving around benzos and benzo withdrawal. That group are the "Ashton method" lunatics.

You never hear the middle ground, which is actually the majority of the people.

People enter into this benzo world with entirely wrong expectations, based on what's been written online. People either think they are supposed to take excessive doses immediately or they are so afraid to take a benzo that they either never will (when they actually need it) or those people fall into this hypochondriacal state and create a self fulfilling prophecy where they get hyperfocused on benzos and the potential withdrawal process etc and fall victim to it.

 

[RiceNKimchi]

I agree. I don't recommend taking benzos at all. What ticks me off though is the extreme positions taken on the issue. There's no voice out there speaking up for those people who are taking benzos responsibly and who go about their lives normally. If you read online, there are two groups of people. One group lightheartedly and openly, brags about severely abusing benzos. The other group, is an extreme fear mongering anti benzo group, who has attempted to create an actual cult, revolving around benzos and benzo withdrawal. That group are the "Ashton method" lunatics.

You never hear the middle ground, which is actually the majority of the people.

People enter into this benzo world with entirely wrong expectations, based on what's been written online. People either think they are supposed to take excessive doses immediately or they are so afraid to take a benzo that they either never will (when they actually need it) or those people fall into this hypochondriacal state and create a self fulfilling prophecy where they get hyperfocused on benzos and the potential withdrawal process etc and fall victim to it.

The ones doing right usually don't have a voice... aas included

 

[Jin23]

Fellas, you have to tone it down with voicing your opinions in such a manner; "those people are stupid", "This whole long acting benzo withdrawal is retarded and wrong.".

The issue with BZD's withdrawal is a well known and studied medical phenomena. Nobody on this forum is going to outsmart decades of clinical practice of psychiatrists and researchers dealing with this issue no matter how strongly or bluntly you voice your opinion.

The issue of long HL BZD's vs short HL BZD's is well characterized and it mostly pertains to whitdrawal/rebound anxiety which is due to much quicker onset, harder to control with shorter HL BZD's. Moreover, some BZD's have a higher response in dopamine transmission elevation. Alprazolam for instance, can be notably dopaminergic for some people, while clonazepam will hardly ever have present with such pharmacodynamics.

Most lay persons when they use for instance xanax, have a much higher chance of quickly redosing when the rebound anxiety happens. People have busy life's and aren't too focused on what's going on in their head, and when the rebound anxiety happens, redosing can be instinctual, and often is.

The other issue is the aformentioned accompanying dopamine response. If there is a very small time window between ingestion of a compound and a subsequent dopamine response, the said compound will have a much higher addiction profile. This is precisely the reason why coke is so addicting when insulfated but not nearly as much when taken per-os. The phenomena described is dopamine's habituating nature. It's pretty simple: whatever you're doing when the large dopamine release happens, you become habituated to that action. In the case of a quick onset dopaminergic drug, one simply becomes habituated to the action of taking the drug. But if dopamine release happen an hour later, the brain doesn't put the two and two together and you become habituated to whatever you're doing when the "dopamine hits". This is how you get accustomed to things you're too lazy to be doing, like studying for instance: you start studying, you take your stimulant and 45m later when it hits and you're still studying, simply put, your brain remembers pleasure = studying.

It is very much true that there is great variability in individual response to BZD withdrawal (physical symptoms and anxiety levels) but this has nothing to do with the users "stupidity" and much to do with individual neurobiology/biology. Clonazepam is one of the BZD's with the cleanest withdrawal profile and is also often used to help patients wean off of alprazolam or some other shorter acting BZD's. If one is so inclined to use BZD's, it's one of the safest options and is basically the only thing I agree with in the above posts.

@readalot I'm interested in hearing more about your story of ssri's and then ending on using clonazepam 3 x a week. What was your experience with using the ssri? Have you achieved relief?

 

[readalot]

Am I missing something here?

Pyrazolam, if you can get hold of it, is all you'll need. Yes, it's a benzo. No, it's not addictive (look it up, also from personal experience of having taken it twice a day for two years, then being unable to get hold of it after brexit and having zero withdrawals)

Apparently it was not addictive for him.

As a blanket statement, prove it.

Hitchens's razor - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Benzodiazepine dependence - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Pyrazolam - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Yes Inspired, you are correct. This is not reddit. Just reads that way sometimes.

Would love to read the reputable data on the wonderful non-addictive potential of pyrazolam.

Let us remember that not everyone who takes benzos gets hooked. There is a significant portion that do; hence, the reason to use an abundance of caution and avoid blanket statements.





In the interest of common understanding and peace I removed my reaction to your post @Seppuku .

 

[readalot]

Fellas, you have to tone it down with voicing your opinions in such a manner; "those people are stupid", "This whole long acting benzo withdrawal is retarded and wrong.".

The issue with BZD's withdrawal is a well known and studied medical phenomena. Nobody on this forum is going to outsmart decades of clinical practice of psychiatrists and researchers dealing with this issue no matter how strongly or bluntly you voice your opinion.

The issue of long HL BZD's vs short HL BZD's is well characterized and it mostly pertains to whitdrawal/rebound anxiety which is due to much quicker onset, harder to control with shorter HL BZD's. Moreover, some BZD's have a higher response in dopamine transmission elevation. Alprazolam for instance, can be notably dopaminergic for some people, while clonazepam will hardly ever have present with such pharmacodynamics.

Most lay persons when they use for instance xanax, have a much higher chance of quickly redosing when the rebound anxiety happens. People have busy life's and aren't too focused on what's going on in their head, and when the rebound anxiety happens, redosing can be instinctual, and often is.

The other issue is the aformentioned accompanying dopamine response. If there is a very small time window between ingestion of a compound and a subsequent dopamine response, the said compound will have a much higher addiction profile. This is precisely the reason why coke is so addicting when insulfated but not nearly as much when taken per-os. The phenomena described is dopamine's habituating nature. It's pretty simple: whatever you're doing when the large dopamine release happens, you become habituated to that action. In the case of a quick onset dopaminergic drug, one simply becomes habituated to the action of taking the drug. But if dopamine release happen an hour later, the brain doesn't put the two and two together and you become habituated to whatever you're doing when the "dopamine hits". This is how you get accustomed to things you're too lazy to be doing, like studying for instance: you start studying, you take your stimulant and 45m later when it hits and you're still studying, simply put, your brain remembers pleasure = studying.

It is very much true that there is great variability in individual response to BZD withdrawal (physical symptoms and anxiety levels) but this has nothing to do with the users "stupidity" and much to do with individual neurobiology/biology. Clonazepam is one of the BZD's with the cleanest withdrawal profile and is also often used to help patients wean off of alprazolam or some other shorter acting BZD's. If one is so inclined to use BZD's, it's one of the safest options and is basically the only thing I agree with in the above posts.

@readalot I'm interested in hearing more about your story of ssri's and then ending on using clonazepam 3 x a week. What was your experience with using the ssri? Have you achieved relief?

Thank you for taking the time to write that. It is folks like you that make these forums worthwhile and useful to those willing to read. A sincere thanks.

 

[Seppuku]

I'm not going to get dragged into an internet argument over this, i've nothing to gain from it whatsoever - I already know from experience what pyrazolam can do, and what it doesn't. I thought my input might help someone suffering from anxiety, and that mentioning what I found extremely helpful could give them a start point to do their own research. Anyhow, seeing as I have 5 minutes, here's a couple of 'science' links people can look at, or not - makes no difference to me tbh, I only dip in and out of this forum now and again. I'm sure there's plenty more, there's definitely many user experiences. And keep in mind, you don't ALWAYS need a pubmed article to know that something works (ie, AAS's plus resistance exercise can increase muscle size and strength - would you trust user experience for that, or would you wait for a pubmed article showing what a gram of test / tren/ deca does?)

Quote - "Pyrazolam is most selective for the α2 and α3 receptor subtypes"

Pyrazolam

Pyrazolam is a novel depressant substance of the benzodiazepine class.

psychonautwiki.org

Quote - "Recently, the addictive properties of BDZs have been shown to require the α1-containing GABAARs"

Hooked on benzodiazepines: GABAA receptor subtypes and addiction - PMC

Benzodiazepines are widely used clinically to treat anxiety and insomnia. They also induce muscle relaxation, control epileptic seizures, and can provoke amnesia. Moreover, benzodiazepines are often abused after chronic clinical treatment but also ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Quote - "Recent findings have highlighted the importance of α1 containing GABAA receptors in the mechanisms of addiction and tolerance in benzodiazepine treatments. This has shown promise in the development of tranquilizers with minimal side effects such as cognitive impairment, dependence, and tolerance".

Valium without dependence? Individual GABAA receptor subtype contribut | NDT

Valium without dependence? Individual GABAA receptor subtype contribution toward benzodiazepine addiction, tolerance, and therapeutic effects Tianze Cheng,1 Dominique Marie Wallace,2 Benjamin Ponteri,1 Mahir Tuli3 1Pitzer College, Claremont, CA, USA; 2Portland State University, Portland, OR...

www.dovepress.com

Happy customers (NON SCIENTIFIC EXPERIENCES, SORRY)

Pyrazolam - Erowid Exp - 'A Beautifully Therapeutic and Safe Benzo'

An Experience with Pyrazolam. 'A Beautifully Therapeutic and Safe Benzo' by Pheniballs

erowid.org

https://bluelight.org/xf/threads/pyrazolam-is-a-superior-benzo-dosage.930193/