High GH Serum - Unchanged IGF1 - Need Some Insight

[Masterchief07]

So I've been off all anabolics for over a year now. I started GH beginning of July, taking Angtropin YellowTops @ 5iu per day (morning) with weekends off. At the time of these bloods being pulled, I had been on the GH for 6 weeks and I injected 10iu's 3.5 hours prior to the exam. Of course, I fasted.

Now, these particular Angs have been getting solid reviews for months. Batch number: 20150801

What's strange, at least in my case, is that my GH serum was clearly elevated but my IGF1 didn't budge at all. Its been consistently the same for months.

I know this could be a number of factors but all of my other tests came back in perfect so I am not entirely sure. This should mean the GH is legitimate, correct? Somebody told me elsewhere that this could be caused by an anti-corporal response and I should try another GH. But that seems like a stretch, no? I'm kind of dumbfounded at this point. Anybody have any insight? Thank you in advance!

 

[Masterchief07]

I apologize for the impatience, but anybody have any feedback?

On a side note, I think I am going to shoot for some Genotropin. I'm not looking for anything crazy. Was thinking about spreading a 36iu pen across a 30 day period using the following split:

2-2-1-2-2-X-X

So 5 on, 2 off with that 1iu on Wednesday. That'll amount to 9iu per week, 36 over the month. Thoughts? My goals are simply fat loss and actual therapy to help repair a groin and lower back injury.

 

[mands]

What were your IGF-1 levels pre GH protocol?

Are you stating before GH use your IGF-1 numbers were in the 220 range?

mands

 

[Masterchief07]

What were your IGF-1 levels pre GH protocol?

Are you stating before GH use your IGF-1 numbers were in the 220 range?

mands

Exactly. In fact, on that second picture, you can see the last 3 IGF results from prior bloods. October was 226, then it dropped to around 130, back to 216, with 221 being this latest result.

 

[mands]

Exactly. In fact, on that second picture, you can see the last 3 IGF results from prior bloods. October was 226, then it dropped to around 130, back to 216, with 221 being this latest result.

Yes I see them now.

I'm curious about the drop in IGF-1 and Z-score on that particular test day.

I would really think you would have a higher IGF-1 level if running 5 iu's a day. This would make me a little skeptic as well since your natural levels are similar when running GH.

Where you running anything else in October? Peptides?

mands

 

[Masterchief07]

@mands October 15 through July 16, no, nothing. I was however running 50mg of clomid for 4 weeks while running this GH, as means to try and elevate my natural test since my LH/FSH pretty much hit the floor. I was a bit worried since my natty test was sitting around 600 with okay LH/FSH levels until June when they plummeted. TT remained the same, so in hindsight, I probably was just at homeostasis when bloods were pulled? Would a SERM actually affect IGF1 levels though? And even if it would, I would have to assume 5iu's would still cause it to go above prior norms, no?

And thank you for the replies btw! Much appreciated!

 

[Masterchief07]

@mands

May have been the clomid after all...

hxxp://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1210/endo-meetings.2014.NP.28.MON-0732

So it probably was elevated but the clomid knocked it down quite a bit. During CC treatment, serum IGF-1 levels decreased by 40±14% (mean±SD) (412±101 to 246±82 ng/mL, P=0.0004) leading 56% of patients (9/16) to normalize IGF-1 levels. I'll continue researching.

 

[Ed Plucker]

If your serum GH is 20+ then your GH is fine. Why your IGF-1 levels aren't more elevated is anyone's guess. You need to know your baseline IGF-1 levels pre-GH in order to see the change but even 220+ IGF-1 is elevated. How old are you? That will determine what your IGF-1 levels should be.

 

[Roco Bama]

Stick with the greys if serostim is out of ur budget. Poorly constructed hgh will raise gh levels but will yield a small increase or none in igf1

 

[Sampei]

If your serum GH is 20+ then your GH is fine. Why your IGF-1 levels aren't more elevated is anyone's guess. You need to know your baseline IGF-1 levels pre-GH in order to see the change but even 220+ IGF-1 is elevated. How old are you? That will determine what your IGF-1 levels should be.

Thats bullshit. Serum GH means nothing. Is shit. Plenty of HGH that tested high serum had no HGH in it.

 

[Eman]

but even 220+ IGF-1 is elevated.

How do you know that if you don't know his baseline?

The reference range for my last IGF test went up to 378! 200 wouldn't have been interpreted as elevated on that test let alone flagged.

 

[Opti]

Thats bullshit. Serum GH means nothing. Is shit. Plenty of HGH that tested high serum had no HGH in it.

Not disputing the above but I guess I have overlooked these HGH's that test high on blood serum tests but have no HGH in them.

Are you referring to the tester's not having elevated igf levels?

 

[Sampei]

Not disputing the above but I guess I have overlooked these HGH's that test high on blood serum tests but have no HGH in them.

Are you referring to the tester's not having elevated igf levels?

Yes. That's what I meant. If high serum
But no increase in IGF
Or very slightly then it's bunk or very underdosed.

IGF is the only almost reliable
Thing that give you an idea if something is working. GH serum... it's total shit. It
Just proves that they had put something in it to try make an effort to make it look legit, and it's not camel sperm.

But without IGF
You will never know.

 

[Opti]

Yes. That's what I meant. If high serum
But no increase in IGF
Or very slightly then it's bunk or very underdosed.

IGF is the only almost reliable
Thing that give you an idea if something is working. GH serum... it's total shit. It
Just proves that they had put something in it to try make an effort to make it look legit, and it's not camel sperm.

But without IGF
You will never know.

Okay, just wanted to make sure I hadn't overlooked these particular test results or misinterpret your post.

I do believe that blood serum tests are helpful prior to partaking in ed injection of an unknown substance for several weeks before you can confirm elevated igf levels. With a blood serum test at least you'll know that your vials contain HGH as I have yet to read of any other substance or peptide to elevate serum 2-3 hours after injection. If their is such a substance I would like to read up on it?

I agree with you, w/o testing you IGF levels prior to HGH use, how can you possibly know the effect of your HGH whether pharma or generic.

 

[Sampei]

Okay, just wanted to make sure I hadn't overlooked these particular test results or misinterpret your post.

I do believe that blood serum tests are helpful prior to partaking in ed injection of an unknown substance for several weeks before you can confirm elevated igf levels. With a blood serum test at least you'll know that your vials contain HGH as I have yet to read of any other substance or peptide to elevate serum 2-3 hours after injection. If their is such a substance I would like to read up on it?

I agree with you, w/o testing you IGF levels prior to HGH use, how can you possibly know the effect of your HGH whether pharma or generic.

Yes Chinese have found some peptides or some substance that does indeed increase GH serum level on the blood test but doesn't increase IGF numbers at all. That's not HGH.
Same as Tren giving false reading on the E2 blood test.


That's why even if you pin the whole vial and get a serum GH test and it comes out good... it means nothing. You could be injecting shit for the next weeks as well.

You need to take IGF and if you know your baseline even 2 weeks are enough to give you an increase. That's a sign that something is good in that vial. How much of it... well that's another story.

 

[Opti]

Yes Chinese have found some peptides or some substance that does indeed increase GH serum level on the blood test but doesn't increase IGF numbers at all. That's not HGH.

@Sampei, would you happen to know which peptides they are? Sure would like to read up on them, must have overlooked them.

You need to take IGF and if you know your baseline even 2 weeks are enough to give you an increase. That's a sign that something is good in that vial. How much of it... well that's another story.

Wholeheartedly agree!

 

[Sampei]

@Sampei, would you happen to know which peptides they are? Sure would like to read up on them, must have overlooked them.


Wholeheartedly agree!

They are unknown man,
If I knew I would definetly post it, but that's the only explanation for high serum level from vials of "HGH" that later doesn't give any increase in igf.

Jim explained it once, its all
About active HGH something like that. It's like you have HGH but it's dead and so it doesn't do his job. I'm mostly blabbering here because it was a long time ago I researched the whole GH serum vs IGF. Plus I have no degree in biochemistry

 

[Roco Bama]

@Sampei, would you happen to know which peptides they are? Sure would like to read up on them, must have overlooked them.


Wholeheartedly agree!

They are some poorly synthesized hgh. The large chain of 191 amino acids could be structured in the wrong way or it could be missing some chemicals that make up the molecule.

 

[muscle96ss]

They are some poorly synthesized hgh. The large chain of 191 amino acids could be structured in the wrong way or it could be missing some chemicals that make up the molecule.

In the literally hundreds of tests that have been done by different members on PM we have yet to see this phenomenon. In theory it is correct; but in reality it makes no sense because why would anybody that has the equipment and capability to produce GH, produce it incorrectly. It would be like somebody copying the production of iphones but they intentionally mix up the wires and put them in the wrong places so that the phone doesn't work. What we have seen over at PM are instances where IGF-1 did not elevate, but upon further investigation it always turned out to be an individual issue due to liver health. Because if the liver is where the GH is converted to IGF-1, so if there are issues with the liver it can dull or even eliminate the conversion to IGF-1.

 

[Roco Bama]

In the literally hundreds of tests that have been done by different members on PM we have yet to see this phenomenon. In theory it is correct; but in reality it makes no sense because why would anybody that has the equipment and capability to produce GH, produce it incorrectly. It would be like somebody copying the production of iphones but they intentionally mix up the wires and put them in the wrong places so that the phone doesn't work. What we have seen over at PM are instances where IGF-1 did not elevate, but upon further investigation it always turned out to be an individual issue due to liver health. Because if the liver is where the GH is converted to IGF-1, so if there are issues with the liver it can dull or even eliminate the conversion to IGF-1.

The greys are good and seem to be consistent based on the test and lab results but you can't vouch for the quality of other generic hgh that you haven't tried and test it. Before the greys came to existence, there weren't any generic hgh that were consistent after hyges and jins went downhill. I personally tried hyges in 2014 and achieved zero results.