Sudden muscle loss

[jaydee]

I started lifting about 4 weeks ago, being very strict with diet and lifting.

I was making good visible gains for the first 3 weeks but on the start of the fourth week I noticed I just started looking smaller. It's incredible how quick this happened - within a few days.

Shortly after this I started no wanting to train due to lack of energy and started niggling pain in knees and lower back and then I started getting a bit of insomnia. The weight also started dropping off a bit.

Does this sound like overtraining? If so what's the best way to overcome it?

 

[Eman]

What is your diet like? Calories? macros?

 

[jaydee]

It's pretty good, I dont actually count calories but just make sure I get enought protein, fat and make the rest up with carbs...I'm getting about 1.5g per pound of protein.

I did notice that on week 4 my fat intake had dropped to around 30g a day tops.

Also my carbs were about 100g lower than the previous 3 weeks.

Still, I was shocked at how quick I lost all that hard work.

 

[jaydee]

Water intake is very good. At least 2 or 3 litres a day.

 

[Eman]

Also my carbs were about 100g lower than the previous 3 weeks.

This can play a role in that.

Your fats also seem pretty low. I'm thinking your diet isn't as on point as you think it is. You need to track it to be sure. If you are training at a high volume you may be expending quite a lot of calories that aren't being replaced in excess for growth.

 

[T_verde77]

That does not seem like enough food. if you're not growing that's usually the case

 

[iamINVICTUS]

You just started lifting man! 4 weeks you're really not going to see much. I bet psychologically you're just getting worried! But hey, dont want to look flat or small? Then eat carbs! And no it is most definitely NOT overtraining. I can say this with 100% certainty.

Good luck bro.

 

[Docd187123]

It's not muscle you have lost.

 

[MrRippedZilla]

Worse case scenario is that your glycogen depleted from the lack of calories and/or carbs.

Also - being "strict with your diet" but not actually tracking calories...
As a beginner you need to track calories and macros, otherwise it isn't strict. Period.

 

[jaydee]

Ok to clear it up, I AM pretty strict with diet BUT in the last week because I came off holidays I havnt had the time to monitor it as well as the previous 3 weeks.

IamInvictus it sure feels like over training or not eating enough to me. These two are essentially the same thing as when you dont eat enough you overtrain your body for the amount of food you're putting in.

Docd that's a pretty vague response. If it's not muscle loss then what is it?

The only other thing I changed in the week leading up to the fourth week was that I added cardio for 35 minutes post workout twice a week. I didnt take my post workout shake until after this cardio as well which may be a factor. The cardio consists of running on a treadmill mainly.

I am new to cardio since in the past I've never needed to do it. Thinking about switching to HIIT and some incline walking instead.

 

[Docd187123]

Like RippedZilla suggested, it's more than likely glycogen and water. If you really are taking in 1.5g/lb BW of protein and you have a decent training program then you won't lose muscle that fast.

 

[jaydee]

Ok thanks, I had wondered if it was somehow a lack of hydration in the muscles. Yet my water intake is high. Potassium is fine, I took some salt with my food with no imporovement. I feel a thirst that cannot really be quenched a lot of the time regardless of good water intake. My urine can be completely clear yet I still feel thirsty.

It does look and feel like a lack of hydration.

My kidney blood tests are normal when I test them.

Regarding glycogen, I also switched my post workout shake from Max's SuperSize to an isolate (sometimes pea protein and whey) and added a bannana and another peice of fruit post workout. I have found pea protein to work just fine throughout the day as I was using that when I was gaining in the first 3 weeks.

 

[jaydee]

Here's another question.

IF I've inadertantly dropped off on the protein how fast CAN you lose muscle?

 

[jaydee]

The best way I can explain it is an opposite of a pump.

Like you know if you have glutamine or creatine and your muscles look really big and full? It's the opposite of that.

And I'm obviously horrified.

 

[weighted chinup]

It's not over training.

Generally speaking athletes who have only been lifting for a short period of time are probably not going to be able to over train or even excessively over reach in such a small amount of time, IME they simply don't have the work capacity to do so. Intermediate - Advanced lifters can definitely accumulate a shit load of fatigue in a 4 week period if their routine is dual factor but there again, those aren't beginners.

Anyway, these kind of fluctuations or sudden loss of dat pump happen. Even when everything is accounted for. Keep training and don't stress over it.

 

[jaydee]

weighted chin-up there's a world of difference in intensity between an absolute beginner and someone who has lifted on and off for 20 years which is me who is starting from scratch. I know my body's limits, I am mentally stronger than most people I know.

If an intermediate bodybuilder can induce overtraining in 4 weeks then so can I. You just have to take my word for it that I push as hard as I can physically go. This is why I got such good gains in the first 3 weeks. When people comment on it you know it's working.

If you got someone off the street who has never trained before, flogged the crap out of them and forced them to train to absolute failure, and then underfed them by 600 calls a day Im pretty sure they would be in a burnt out state within weeks.

 

[jaydee]

The other weird thing is that I wasnt getting overly sore either which tells me my recovery was not too bad.

But I was going into gym sessions completely flat.

 

[weighted chinup]

weighted chin-up there's a world of difference in intensity between an absolute beginner and someone who has lifted on and off for 20 years which is me who is starting from scratch. I know my body's limits, I am mentally stronger than most people I know.

If an intermediate bodybuilder can induce overtraining in 4 weeks then so can I. You just have to take my word for it that I push as hard as I can physically go. This is why I got such good gains in the first 3 weeks. When people comment on it you know it's working.

In the context of a 4 week training period, I wouldn't use the word over training. If we are talking about shorter periods of excessive workload then over reaching is a more fitting word. I would consider over training to be almost like a disease instead of a very temporary / quick to dissipate condition (being fatigued). It would occur if an athlete doing a LOT of work / training with a high workload was neglecting deloads for a long period of time. It also takes a lot longer to dissipate fatigue if an athlete is over trained instead of just over reaching for a couple weeks.

However,

If you didn't notice an involution in performance during your training sessions in that 4 week period, then you likely weren't over reaching / over trained. Fatigue masks fitness, if you were fatigued heavily then your performance would reflect that.

Simple test for excessive over reaching: Take a 1 week deload. If you come back stronger, chances are you were over reaching.

Being mentally strong or having intensity isn't going to cause an athlete to over reach of over train that quickly absent a VERY HIGH workload. What does an average training week look like for you in terms of weekly / daily volume?

 

[MrRippedZilla]

I'm just going to repeat my original post: its glycogen depletion.
Bump up your carbs and the problem goes away.

 

[jaydee]

My volume is pretty high, lots of compound movements.

I think the term "overtraining" has different meaning for different people. In my opinion, overtraining can be both short term or long term. If you're burnt out from 4 weeks of training then you're over training in my opinion. Same as if you've burnt out from lifting year in year out without a break or deloading.

I'm sure from what ive read that someone has coined "overtraining" as what you get when its a long term thing and anything else is just "over-extending" or whatever. But in a nutshell it's all overtraining in my opinion where you need to back off and possibly eat more. Same same.